Interview – Page 8 – Grown Up Rap

Premiere: billy woods – ‘Illegal Tints’ + Interview

billy woods is one of the most talented writers to emerge from the indy rap scene in the last 15 years. Whether recording on his own or as part of Armand Hammer, his music is crafted with precision, creating vivid stories and wordplay that usually demands repeat listening for the words to sink in. Here he talks about his excellent recent album, Known Unknowns, the importance of artwork, working with ELUCID and more. He’s also gifted us an exclusive new track, Illegal Tints, featuring Hemlock Ernst, and produced by Blockhead.

Known Unknowns has been getting a lot of love, but you strike us as someone who probably doesn’t care too much about praise or criticism either way. Is the need for acclaim and recognition a driving factor for you at all?

Yes, certainly! Rare is the artist who hopes to go undiscovered and unappreciated into obscurity, no matter how much they enjoy their privacy. Might seem counter-intuitive but there you have it.

The album has you working closely with Blockhead again. Does collaborating on an entire project with one producer prompt you to write a cohesive narrative that works across a collection of signature sounds, or do you detach and work on each track in isolation?

The easy answer is probably that it depends on the project, but thinking about it a bit, I think the answer is no. A cohesive narrative is something that will happen in my head, the single producer can only (potentially) help ensure a cohesive sound, if that’s what one is looking for.

The artwork for your albums is always intriguing; sometimes grainy/lo-fi imagery (Camouflage, History Will Absolve Me), other times highly stylized (Known Unknowns, Dour Candy), but almost always black & white. Is it an element of your work you devote a lot of time to?

The artwork is definitely important to me. There was one time that I did something where it wasn’t important enough, and I soon regretted it. So yeah, now it is always thoroughly considered. And then I always want it to have additional meaning, even if only to me. The Camouflage artwork, that image is from a book about race riots/uprisings in 1970s urban America, that belonged to my father. And the inlay, I still own that bus ticket. It’s probably one of my most closely held personal possessions that is of no value to anyone else. When I look at that, I see a lot more than what’s there.

I also enjoy being able to reach out to talented friends and collaborate. That’s why I enjoy having Alexander Richter shoot artwork for us. Not only is he a successful and famous photographer, he is also my old, old friend, so having him shoot Emergency Powers and Today, I Wrote Nothing, and ELUCID’s album Save Yourself, had an extra layer of meaning for me. Likewise with the guy who shot Cape Verde, or having Ashes 57, another good personal friend and very talented artist, do Dour Candy and Indonesia. And most recently, my friend Shane Ingersoll, who did Furtive Movements and Known Unknowns, and is doing the artwork for the new Armand Hammer LP, Rome. Just another incredibly talented artist who I am lucky enough to actually know as a person, and who is willing to lend their talents to what I am doing. I have been very fortunate in that sense.

Also, shout out to my friend, DJ Mo Niklz. He did a great job on this album too. I never had a DJ figure so prominently into one of my official albums, and he not only killed it on the individual tracks but his presence really helped bring the overall concept together, for me anyway.

The black & white aesthetic doesn’t seem incidental. Would you say it’s a reflection of the music?

Might seem crazy but until now I had never realized that all my solo albums were in black and white except for The Chalice, which is probably my least favorite, so now I don’t know what to think.

You grew up for a time in Africa and the West Indies. How has that influenced your music, if at all?

I would maybe not say “grew up” in the West Indies, per se, but the time I spent there was formative. And certainly, my experiences in Africa are a huge part of the person I am. My music is ultimately greatly affected by both, because they are things that greatly shaped me as a person.

You work with ELUCID a lot. Is the creative process different when you are just ELUCID and billy woods appearing on each other’s solo albums compared to when you are recording together as Armand Hammer?

Good question. For him, he sends/plays me a beat and a verse or idea, and I do it. For me, I send him beats until he likes one, which could be immediate or not happen at all. Then he records it. Or I ask him for some beats, in which case it’s an entirely different scenario. Also, different albums had different internal workings. Today, I Wrote Nothing was recorded in close concert with ELUCID, he got an executive producer credit on that one. So, I might be working on something and he is right there and says hey, I want to get on that. Or the opening song Lost Blocks, which was originally something he was working on, then I heard it and felt inspired, laid a verse and it ended up being my album opener.

Whereas Known Unknowns I worked on a lot more by myself and took a long time so there was no zeitgeist moment, I just was plugging away between other things. So that was a situation where I doubt ELUCID had any real idea of the overarching sound/themes/momentum of the album. In that sense, History Will Absolve Me was the same way, albeit for different reasons. But because I didn’t know him as well at the time it was more just being like “you want to rap on this beat?” or “you think you could mess with this idea”

And of course, collaboration must be squared away with the reality of people’s lives outside of the music. People move around, they get new jobs, they take on new responsibilities, so any enduring collaboration, like a lasting friendship, has to evolve to accommodate those changes.

What’s next up for you?

Got a couple Armand Hammer projects in the can. Going on tour with the incomparable Open Mike Eagle this fall, not the whole thing but selected dates, carpetbagger that I am.

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Known Unknowns is out now. Follow billy woods via Backwoodz Studioz here. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Premiere: Giallo Point & PhybaOptikz – ‘Catch 22’ + Interview

The last couple of years have seen us write about pretty much every bit of new music producer Giallo Point has made, partly because we like to champion quality UK hip-hop, partly because he works with a lot of talented emcees, but mostly because his creations are consistently great. As the beatmaker of choice for his own Crate Divizion crew, the #Winners crew and just about any other crew you can name, his skills have seen him become one of the most in-demand producers on the indy rap circuit. Check his latest single below, the first taste of the upcoming Voynich Manuscript album with PhybaOptikz, then read our short interview.

Your stock has grown very quickly in the last two years, with emcees from around the world wanting your beats. How satisfying is it to know people respect your music?

Its very inspiring man; getting love from some of my favorite MCs makes it all worth it. And shout out to all the heads checking online as well.

You seem to be at the center of a new generation of quality rappers bubbling on the independent scene, including Supreme Cerebral, Crimeapple, Daniel Son, SmooVth, Jay Holly and Tha God Fahim. What do you think draws these artists to your productions?

I would say its more the fact I’ll plan to make something from the jump I could imagine them writing to. Like I always have an idea what would fit best around each MC. That doesn’t always work though [laughs]. Sometimes they’ll pick a beat I don’t really wanna use. But 9/10 times it works from me sending them.

Do people now usually come to you asking for beats, or do you reach out yourself first?

Yeah I usually reach out to them with a batch of beats and I’m mega picky with what MCs I wanna work with.

Tell us more about Crate Divizion. How did the collective start, and who else reps the name outside of you, PhybaOptikz and Vic Grimes?

So Crate Divizion was originally started around 2013 by Vic Grimes. He’s the guy that put this whole movement together. Shout my man right there. I discovered Vic on Soundcloud. He had some crazy beats on there and I took inspiration from hearing these, and we started going back and forth for a couple of months, and then Giallo Point became the 2nd member. PhybaOptikz’ style fit perfectly for what CDVZ is all about. He makes those library spy type of beats, and plus he is an Ill MC too. Daniel Son is in the circle, but he also reps his team BBM (Brown Bag Money). So that’s the team right there.

You also have pretty close ties with #TheWinners. Was that a relationship that grew via Twitter and email, or have you all had chance to connect in person?

#TheWinners formed all through Hus Kingpin. Shout out my man because originally we hooked up through me sending him beats via email. Then the tracks started stacking between him and SmooVth, and from About 2015 Hus was like: ‘we got El Ay and Giallo Point repping the team from The UK’. And then the rest was formed in the US by him.

The style of production you have has obvious boom bap influences, but it can also be quite minimalist, similar to the work of other producers like Roc Marciano, Ka, Skizz and Daringer. Who do you see as your inspirations, and your peers?

I like to flip many styles which you’ll see with the next three releases. As far as inspirations go I’d say household names; you know, Premier, DJ Muggs, RZA and so on.

How would you yourself describe your style?

Gritty with drama overall.

Are there any artists you are itching to work with? Roc Marciano seems like he’d be a good fit.

Roc would be dope. But there are many I could list. One other I’d say is Kool G Rap, because he’s my favorite MC of all time.

Catch 22 is from an upcoming new album from you and fellow Crate Division artist PhybaOptikz, named Voynich Manuscript. Tell us more about what we can expect, and the meaning of the name.

According to Wikipedia, ‘Voynich Manuscript is an illustrated codex hand-written in an unknown writing system. The vellum on which it is written has been carbon-dated to the early 15th century’. Basically, Phybaoptikz is using the concept to showcase his lyrical wordplay to paint vivid pictures over cinematic back drops of tales of danger, whilst delivering a message in word patterns.

Look out for Voynich Manuscript coming soon. Follow Giallo Point here. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Premiere: MC Whiteowl & FATCATHAYZE 156 – ‘Keep Calm’ feat. L.I.F.E. Long (video) + Interview

There’s a new EP from MC Whiteowl and beatmaker FATCATHAYZE 156 on the way soon, Fill In The Blanks. Until then, we’re proud to premiere the video for the latest single, Keep Calm, with guest raps from L.I.F.E. Long. Watch above, then read our short interview with the crew.

Tell us about the new EP, Fill In The Blanks. How did that come about?

[MC Whiteowl]: Fill in the Blanks is a concept that invites the listener to become a participant in the project. Hayze and I make music that sticks to the traditional script of Hip-Hop that we were both raised on. The beats are Boom bap and Hayze digs for these records. I write all of the lyrics and there’s a formal message buried in everything. We know the message that we’re trying to tell folks, but they don’t always get it. Peep the track Credit, and understand that we’re passing down vital information in these times.

But buried in the lyrics are a lot of puns and detailed word play. Keep Calm is a party track, but there’s still a message. In terms of the creative process, and the music, people assume that Fill in The Blanks is simply a formal invite. What we’re saying though is; “hey, we made this and we know it’s dope. Listen to it and enjoy and make your assumption”.

Hayze and I began working on this project almost immediately following the release of our last EP, Beatz Rhymez Drugz. That project sparked a nice buzz and we had a chance to do some things that we both always wanted to do. We were guests on both the now defunct Halftime Radio Show, and Rap Is Outta Control with DJ Eclipse. I used to intern at Wild Pitch for Eclipse, so to be featured on the Halftime Show was definitely something on my bucket list. We were also guests at ShowOff Radio with Statik Selektah.

[FATCATHAYZE 156]: We definitely feel that this is a cohesive body of work—thankfully everything just fell nicely into place. From subject matter, direction and the overall sound, everything clicked – it’s very well balanced.

I’m always intrigued by the creative process behind emcee/producer projects. How do you guys work – in person, or via email?

[MC Whiteowl]: We work in person…we’ve been friends since 2014. I heard his music first. His beats are dope, but after further research, I realized that he had worked with the group Cause & Effect (Mighty Buda and Shabazz See)—these guys make great music. Hayze and I are both New York heads. We were probably both downtown in Manhattan in the ‘90s, a couple blocks away from each other and we never knew it. We share similar views on many things. Hayze makes the beats, I think of the song concepts and write the rhymes, and DJ Fred Ones does the engineering and the cuts. Hayze and Fred are my family, and I can count on them to stay focused. And they’ll always be honest with me if something isn’t sounding right. I like to spazz out in the studio, and I can depend on these brothers to keep everything properly structured.

[FATCATHAYZE 156]: Whiteowl and I work live and direct. We don’t live too far from each other which makes it easy for us to link and make music. We’ll link and I’ll play a snippet disc in the whip. Whatever he likes, I’ll send ‘em over the track so he can start penning his lyrics. In most instances I’ll play joints in the studio and have ‘em write on the spot. We usually get a good vibe goin’ this way. Once he’s ready to hit the both, we’ll interrupt our trusty engineer from his union break so he can get working [laughs]. Huge shout To Fred Ones! He plays a huge part in our creative process, and one of the few engineers I trust with my sound.

MC Whiteowl; you’ve worked a lot with Statik Selektah. Do you go back a long way, or is it a working relationship that’s developed more recently, as your fan base has grown?

[MC Whiteowl]: I was first introduced to Statik in 2013 by a mutual friend. He’s a phenomenal deejay and an extremely talented producer. He produced the track Rollin on my first solo album, Higher Intelligence. I hit ‘em up last year and I was very lucky to work with him on another three joints; One Chance, Slave, and No Interference, which will all be featured on my upcoming solo LP, Born Yesterday.

What’s next after the new album?

[MC Whiteowl]: My solo album, Born Yesterday, is finished and I’m just finalizing the cover. There’s production from Statik, Hayze, DJ Fred Ones, Wann Sklobi (Certain.Ones) and Jakk Wonders. I have some dope guest features lined-up too, including Akbar, Bobby Craves, L.I.F.E. Long, Mook Neto, Rhinoceros Funk, and Serge Boogie.

[FATCATHAYZE 156]: I have an instrumental album in its mastering phase, as well as a compilation in the works (among other things). Both projects are set to drop before the end of the year.

Finally, I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask about the new video for Keep Calm. It looked like a fun shoot. Are those real beers though?

[MC Whiteowl]: The video was shot live in NYC, and The Dead Poet on Amsterdam Ave. And yup, the beers were real—no O’Doul’s over here. Shouts to everybody that made it possible, especially K.C., John, Emzkey 1, Hayze and L.I.F.E. Long. Blessings and Hip-Hop to all. Shouts to Grown Up Rap! Hit me here to pre-order physical copies of Fill in the Blanks, and my solo project, Born Yesterday: mcwhiteowl@gmail.com.

[FATCATHAYZE 156]: It was a great day indeed with my brothers!

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Follow MC Whiteowl here, and FATCATHAYZE 156 here. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Premiere: Words Hurt – ‘King of Summer’

Words Hurt are about to follow up last year’s excellent Fuck That Pretty Boy Shit album with a new project, Soul Music for the Soulless, out later this year. Today we premiere a taste of what’s to come, the feel-good single King of Summer. If you didn’t already know, Words Hurt is producer Lang Vo, and emcee Alaska, of Atoms Family and Hanger 18 (Def Jux). Listen below, and read our interview with Alaska from last year here.

Premiere: Career Crooks – 'Steve Martin' (video) + Interview

Career Crooks is made up of emcee/beatmaker/writer Zilla Rocca, and producer Small Professor. They’ve been making music for years (check their respective Bandcamp pages here and here), but are now reaching a wider audience on the strength of their excellent new album, Good Luck With That, and the warm-up EP, Take What’s Coming. Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche spoke to them about writing, drawing inspiration from TV and film, their working process, and more. We also premiere the video for the latest single from the album, Steve Martin. Photos by Bob Sweeney.

There’s something very cinematic about Good Luck With That and Career Crooks as a group, running through everything from the name itself, to the artwork, and most notably, the themes and atmosphere of the music. I’m intrigued to find out if you, Zilla Rocca, write rhymes in a visual way, and if you, Small Professor, approach beat making as if scoring a movie?
[Zilla Rocca]: I like to write pretty specifically. And I’ve always enjoyed rappers and writers who pointed out very specific things. In rap, the greats like Nas, Slick Rick, Ghostface, Biggie, etc really placed premiums on the small details when they told stories, so even if you had no reference points on your own, it felt more believable as a listener. Tom Waits said something about that once which I always tried to follow: he likes song in which they tell the location, where there’s a place to eat, what the waitress looks like, if the cars parked out front have rusty mufflers, stuff along those lines. Even Action Bronson right now only raps in specifics – the color of his sneaker, the ’90s baseball player he looks like, what kind of sauce he puts on exotic foods. Sometimes it takes longer to write like that, but it also puts you closer into the mind of the author like what the hell have they seen or experienced to jot down stuff like that?
[Small Professor]: Usually the inspiration I get from TV and films affects my music in the literal sense, in the form of sampling vocal clips and soundtracks. However, for Good Luck With That, I certainly approached things in a movie scoring manner. Sometimes rap music where the lyrics and the beat(s) don’t match up mood-wise can be interesting in a starkly contrasting way, but I prefer to try to match the vibe of whoever I’m working with.

Zilla Rocca; You write very vivid stories with a keen attention to detail, especially on tracks like Cold Ten Thousand and Dock Street Suspicions. They remind me of the work of a range of different writers, from the noir of Raymond Chandler, to the gritty street crime of novels by George Pelecanos and Richard Price, to graphic novels by Frank Miller. Who would you say are your biggest influences as a writer?
As a writer, it’s all of those guys you listed, plus Elmore Leonard, James Ellroy, David Goodis, Ed Brubaker, Megan Abbott. George Anastasia was a legendary crime reporter in Philly who I read heavily. Richard Stark. Lawrence Block. Warren Ellis who I reference on the album, he’s major. I read comics based on the author, not the artist, so I’m into visual mediums with great voices. I get a lot of lines from reading these people, some I jot down and use for bars and hooks, or some that literally make me want to rap as soon as I finish reading them.

Do you see yourself in the future focusing more on creative fiction, perhaps becoming a novelist?
Someone once mentioned that to me 4-5 years ago as a possible avenue. It feels overwhelming to think about, but I never entirely rule it out. I just don’t have any ideas that I think are good enough yet. I’ve made so many albums and EPs the past 10-12 years, I feel like each one was grooming me to the process of a book someday. Because it takes you about a year to write an album. Indie guys like J-Zone and Blueprint have published awesome books based on their careers, and I think I could do something like that because I’m older with a lot of wisdom and hilarious bits of failure and banal trivia to share in my rap journey.
It would be wrong to say that storytelling in hip-hop is back – it honestly never left. But there has definitely been a resurgence recently. A good example would be an artist like Ka, but also often in the work of emcees like Jonwayne, Homeboy Sandman, Your Old Droog and more. Obvious examples like Slick Rick, DOOM and Ghostface Killah aside, who do you think does this kind of rap song well?
I said it before, but I think Action Bronson gets overshadowed as a storyteller because his persona isn’t built around that, but he’s heavily inspired by Kool G Rap who is a masterful storyteller as well. Same thing with my buddies Billy Woods and Elucid – they touch on worlds so far out of my realm of life experience and it’s thrilling. I remember hanging out with them a couple years ago in New York and thinking to myself “I’m getting drunk with two of the most talented artists in the world who couldn’t be more opposite than me in every single way, all because we decided to rap at some point as young men.” I think Kanye is a great storyteller too because he’s good at being brief and to the point, which is incredibly difficult. This song White Dress he did, I still get goosebumps. Same with Big Brother. He’s the best in the business when writing about relationships and the honestly awful shit men think and do. Aesop Rock – fuck man. From No Regrets to Ruby 81 and Blood Sandwich, he’s made me want to quit multiple times the past 15 years. Danny Brown is slowly getting there, as is the homie Vic Spencer. It’s not an easily acquired skill.

Small Professor; You can tell by listening to the new album that it was an in-person collaboration – helped by you and Zilla Rocca living close to each other – rather than a via email project. As a producer, how important is it for you to create face-to-face in the studio?
I’m certainly glad that it sounds like it was an in-person collaboration, but not only was the album mostly done via email/Dropbox, I was given ZR’s raw vocals to build around rather than sending him beats to write to. I’ve always wanted to do an official project this way after spending a few of my formative years creating and releasing remix projects; I feel like while creating rap songs traditionally can be fulfilling, I’m better at matching up words with sounds that fit. Generally speaking, I don’t spend much time working with anyone face-to-face. I do music on my own, usually after a hard day’s work or when my children are ignoring me.
When working with someone who writes as vividly as Zilla Rocca, do you hear the lyrics first and then create a beat around them, or create a selection of tracks for Zilla to then chose from? What’s the process?
As previously stated, Good Luck With That was me creating beats around Zilla’s lyrics, but our also-recently-released project, Take What’s Coming, features ZR rapping to beats I sent him in the 1-2 months prior to its debut. Every once in a while, I’ll make an instrumental and be like “this is a Zilla/Curly Castro/PremRock jawn”, but that is mostly random and unexpected. I generally just try to create interesting things that can either be the backdrop for a new song or stand on its own 7 feet.

Producers like J Dilla, DJ Shadow and Pete Rock are credited with making full-length instrumental hip-hop projects a viable product, but Dilla himself often said how he always made tapes to sell the beats to artists, and not necessary to be seen as albums in their own right. How do you see your ‘Jawns’ projects – standalone albums, a way for emcees to audition your beats, or a bit of both?
I’ve always considered my Bandcamp releases as unofficial albums, or the rap beat version of a mixtape. Sometimes, such as in the case of Elderly Jawns or the Mixed Jawns mini-series, they can simply be glorified (and organized) collections of beat sketches. Sometimes, such as in the case of Chicago Jawns or the Nasty Jawns mini-series, they can be conceptual and/or theme-based in nature. It’s all really just an avenue where I can release what I’ve been working on fairly recently at anytime I want.

Beatmakers like RJD2 and Oddisee have been able to open up new revenue streams by making music with a view to being licensed for commercials, video games, TV and movies. Is that something you’d like to get into?
I’ve always had this idea to do a score for No Country For Old Men just for practicing purposes, to see what it would feel like to tackle a movie soundtrack. Guys like John Williams and Bernard Herrmann always impressed me with their ability to have their own musical voice remain obvious while providing full-length films with an integral dose of personality. Creating music for video games would be a welcome challenge for me, as well. I’m pretty much down for whatever.

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Good Luck With That is out now. Listen below, then go here to buy it. If you are in NYC, also check the album release party, June 9. See flyer below.

Interview: Quelle Chris + album stream

Gingerslim talks to one of the most creative artists in hip-hop and beyond, Quelle Chris.
For those people who may not be familiar with your career to date, can you give us a little breakdown about who you are and what’s brought you to this point?
I started rapping/writing in middle school and producing in high school. Since then I’ve worked alongside many crews, defunct and present in many forms, at varied points. From Soul Tyde (Blackspade, I,Ced , Nato Caliph), Breakfast Club (Wasted Youth, Elzhi, Ta’raach), Bruiser Brigade (Danny Brown, Dopehead), War Media (Pharoahe Monch, Jean Grae), Kilpmode (Suzi Analogue, Mndsgn, Knxwledge, Swarvy), Vibe Music Co (Cavalier, Iman Omari, PUDGE, Fresh Daily, Bae Bro) and almost too many great artists, known and well known, in between and around, for me to possibly name. I liken my music career to the journey of a samurai in a Kurosawa flick, or a driven warrior in a Shaw brothers’ film. Traveling and learning from, working with and aiding others. Forming life long bonds, fighting battles small and large. And hopefully one day becoming a master and giving back to others in the same way many have aided me, up to this point.
How did you first come to work with Mello Music Group?
My album Shotgun and Sleek Rifle caught the attention of Mello. A brother and work partner, Jon Kim, connected the dots and I was looking for the illusion of “security” as a working artist at the time, so it just seemed right. However many years later we’re still fighting the good fight together.

MMG definitely seem to be label dedicated to the artists. What do you think sets them apart from other indy labels?
They have me on their roster. That’s definitely a strong boost in credibility.
Is your creative process fairly linear – you set yourself a goal and work towards it, or is it more spontaneous than that?
Unless I’m being paid for a specific task, or working with someone else towards a specific goal, I usually just let it come as it does. I generally push deadlines to a breaking point and tend to create like it’s a bodily function. Sometimes I gotta let it out, but unless necessary, I try not to force it.
I’ve always rated you as an artist because you genuinely seem to have fun while making your music, which seems to be lacking from a lot of rap. Is that an essential aspect for you? Like if you ever realize you’re not having fun, you’ll know its time to quit?
If I was younger I think my answer would be yes, but I can’t see that happening. It’s simply a part of what I am. And maybe if I felt I genuinely disliked what I was making I would stop, but I don’t see that happening either. What I seek these days is a stress free creative zone, both mentally and physically. As long as the money and home are okay, I will have as much fun with music as I possibly can. Plus I have my hands in so many arts, visual arts in many mediums, producing for myself and others, writing for stage and screen, singing and so on that if I ever need a break from rapping I have many ways to keep that part of myself active. So if you ever don’t hear me rapping, just know I probably have my foot in the game in some form or another.
You also always seem to make the music that you would want to hear. Has that always been your philosophy, or are some projects embarked upon with the intention of focusing on a particular group of people, or gaining a certain audience’s attention?
When I first started it was more about emulating and impressing others, seeking that validation, searching for my own creative voice. But I always loved finding something new and my interests and tastes were all over the place. I was more of a fan then than now. Now I’m more of an artist than a fan. So my artist side feels obligated to continue to provide my fan side and others with those moments of “damn” that made me want to start and continued to push me to dig deeper. Those moments when you hear something new. Good or bad. Those moments when you hear a new voice, delivery, flip, emotion and so on. If anything the group I’m focusing on are people who like variety in their musical diet. My menu changes from season to season, but what I serve is always delicious.
You seem to be sitting on an endless amount of unreleased material; are you one of these artists that always feels like he has to be creating in some way?
I love creating things, but I could go for a vacation or two or three. I dig days when I don’t have to think about anything. Being a professional artist means you are almost always at work.
One of my favourite tracks of yours is SLSBS with Metabeats. How did you guys end up working together?
We did that a while ago. I dare say a year or more before it came out, if I correctly recall recording it in San Francisco. Plus the bounce I used on it. I feel certain deliveries of mine are like time stamps. I don’t remember exactly how it came to be, but definitely dig that song heavy.

You’ve been involved with a few groups, crews and collaborations over the years, but if you could pick your own supergroup who would it be?
I’m looking forward to finishing a new Crown Nation album with Denmark Vessey and my brother Mosel. I’m already in my super group. I’m sure it will have a stunning cast of features though. So it’ll kill two questions with one stone.
Do you think the backlash against the XXL freshmen class and in particular so-called mumble rap has been justified? You strike me as the sort of cat who appreciates anyone trying to make their mark, however they go about doing it.
Yeah. I enjoy a decent amount of the new cats and study their patterns and styles. I love rapping. So as much as I can tend to be “bitter old rapper guy”, I just love the art and evolution of rhyme & rhythm too much. There’s some that don’t deserve the backlash, but then there’s a billion that are just plain terrible or just remake and imitate. Also I really can’t fuck with the whole “I’m not a rapper” thing. It’s just such a cop out. You can be an artist too, but if you’re rapping then just admit you’re a rapper too. If we don’t hold on to our baby, good or bad, we open the door for others to decide the future of Hip-Hop/Rap music for us. So maybe me and “Lil whatever savage god lord” don’t need to make music together, but I think bridges or communication should be left open and not burned, because maybe one day people will forget that hip hop was ours. Like has happened with so many other cultural contributions.
What can we expect from you in 2017?
Collaborations with the usual suspects and a few surprises I’m sure ya’ll will love. That’s my Trump answer: “You’re gonna love it”. More production. I’m also still a part of The Show Show with Jean Grae, which is a monthly live talk show at Union Hall in Brooklyn. I’m looking forward to continuing to help make it bigger and better. I’m also working on a few comic books and a follow up to last year’s digital book Goodnight Courtney. I usually don’t take time to make visual art unless it’s time to make album art or videos, so looking forward to getting back into it along with making music, etc. Maybe I’ll go 40 times platinum and move to an island for the rest of the year. We’ll see.
Any final words or shout outs?
Buy music. Buy hip-hop. Support and share hip-hop with those you love, those who are like minded and even those who don’t understand, or will hate it. BUY MUSIC. Buy mainstream. Definitely buy underground and local. But of course if you honestly can’t buy, then share at every moment you can. It’s the circle of life. The more people support, the more we can get out on the road, make more music, make more physicals etc. Support what you love. Not just from afar, but actively and with pride cause the folks that support the bullshit don’t do it quietly. Why should we?
Being You Is Great, I Wish I Could Be You More Often by Quelle Chris is out now on Mello Music Group. Stream and watch the video for Birthdaze below.

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Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best.

Follow Grown Up Rap on Twitter.

Eloh Kush: Interview and album stream

New Jersey’s Eloh Kush has been heavy on the grind since we last spoke to him back in January. We recently caught up again to talk about new album AngelDus, recorded in collaboration with beatmaker Dus, which you can stream below.

We’ve seen your name in a lot more places since we last spoke. Would you say your career is starting to get some real momentum?

I definitely will say I’m starting to pick up steam and more notoriety in different countries such as Japan, Ireland, Germany, France and Africa, as well as the States, but I don’t think it’s enough yet. I have plenty more work to do – this is just my first climb up the mountain, but I’m down for the task and looking for the challenge.

The new album, AngelDus, has you working with just one producer. How does that compare to taking beats from different people for one project?

The difference is that Dus and I have a great chemistry together, so it’s not like I have to play email tag back and forth to explain a certain vibration I want. It’s like Dus knows exactly the canvas I need to paint on. I mean, in truth I do have a great rapport with other producers, but the camaraderie that Dus and I have is just something unparalleled by other producers thus far.

Does working with one beatmaker lead to a more coherent album overall?

I think it can, if you concentrate enough on a similar idea. All types of barriers can be broken if it’s a collective, unified and focused on achieving a certain goal. It’s way more easier, at least on this experience thus far. Sometimes you do need different flavors for different recipes for different meals you want to cook up, but on this one I think me expressing my point of view and actually coming up with the material for this album, it can only have been with one person.

What’s the process? Does Dus make beats from scratch, based around your writing, or do you pick from a selection of pre-made joints?

It happens organically in truth. Sometimes he may call me and say ‘hey, I got this vibe and I want you to check it out. Come over to the crib tomorrow!’ We don’t actually live very far from each other, so I think that’s even better, because getting together is instantaneous, so coming up with the material is basically on the spot at times. Other times I’ve been on the road doing shows out of state and he’ll send me two or three beats by email because he couldn’t wait for me to get them and he knows that once I hear a new sound or something, I’m going to create on the spot. I’ll stop everything that’s going on and just walk away and go somewhere in seclusion and just compose something very esoteric.

There are some impressive guests on the new project, including The Artifacts emcee El da Sensei, Scienz of Life rapper John Robinson, and D.I.T.C. legend A.G. Did you get to record together, or was it all done over email?

Anything John Robinson and I do is always in person because that’s my comrade in this business and in life. We are very close – over 20 plus years of friendship and brotherhood. El da Sensei was actually in the studio with me for his verse, which I truly appreciate. A.G was on the road touring, so he had to mail his verse.

How do you connect with artists like that? Do you have a wishlist of people you’d love to work with?

The facilitator on getting those actual people for that particular song, B-boy Bonanza, was all John Robinson. His previous relationships and just connecting me with these outstanding, gifted people helped me tremendously, but that’s what brothers do for each other. My wishlist? Not sure about that. That would be too long, but yes, there are some of the greats I do want to work with and I will, but we’ll see when that occurs.

Presumably, an indy artist also has to weight up the cost of a guest verse against how much exposure it’s likely to generate?

I can’t really speak for anyone else, but my experience with that situation is I do it with the greats that I admire. I’m not just a musician; I am a fan of hip-hop, so for me the cost or the actual exposure isn’t it. To actually be among the icons and getting their nod of approval is like a pass, or being welcomed into the club by earning my stripes.

As fans, we love the fantasy that artists are always actually in the studio together, but deep down we know that doesn’t happen much anymore. Do you think that collaborations are less genuine because of this?

Sometimes it depends on the chemistry between the people you’re collaborating with. Of course you want to sit down and vibrate with the other person in the studio line-for-line or thought-for-thought, but other times if you don’t have a connection with the person and it’s just business, then it can just be a robotic feeling. If you do have a close personal relationship with the person and they’re not actually in the studio and they know you as a person, as a celestial being, then it’s all love.

What’s next after AngelDus?

Constant elevation, always constant elevation. I have a few projects coming up this year, including a book of poetry, a project with Ray West that will be released on Red Apples 45 in the fall. I have a project with John Robinson producing all the beats that should be coming out this year. I also did some interesting work with my man from Ohio, producer J Rawls. There’s an Angelz Inc album coming, an EP with producer Japan Budamunk, plus more work with Dus. I’m also excited to release the first project I’ve ever produced and recorded for the poet Seshat Ali, which will be coming out on my label. My plate is extremely full but I’m glad to have a plate in front of me. I’m humbled, but at the same time I’m confident and extremely focused on the experience and the journey to becoming my personal legend.

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Stream the new AngelDus album from Eloh Kush and Dus:

The Making of J Dilla’s ‘The Diary’ (documentary)

Nicely done short documentary about the recent, long-time-coming The Diary album from J Dilla, featuring rare clips of the great man himself, plus interviews with those involved.

Interview: Alaska (Words Hurt, Hangar 18)

Words Hurt just released their debut album, Fuck That Pretty Boy Shit , but we’re a long way from the start of rapper Alaska’s rap career. Gingerslim caught up with him to find out about his musical ventures past, present and future, as well as some insights into his thoughts on the current state of hip-hop.

For those people who aren’t that familiar with you or your music, can you enlighten us a bit on your background?

My name is Tim, I go by the rap name Alaska. I was part of a weird fringe of the 1990s underground scene that developed when a bunch of weird assholes got together to make weird rap music as a collective called The Atoms Family, which spawned my old group Hangar 18, as well as Cannibal Ox and Cryptic One. Hangar 18 eventually dropped a few albums with the indie label Def Jux, home to acts such as Aesop Rock, EL-P, the aforementioned Cannibal Ox, etc.

We toured for a while, lost a lot of money, and eventually called it quits. I then formed a group called The Crack Epidemic with a producer named Kojo Kisseih, we dropped an EP and an LP.

I had a kid, needed to make a lot of changes in my life to make sure I could be a functioning adult who could live up to the responsibility of being a dad, so I walked away from rapping for a while. A few years later when my friend Pawl, who produced the Hangar 18 albums, was working on a documentary about indie rappers who were now pushing 40, I reconnected with some of the old Atoms Family heads and caught the bug again. We put out an album called Sands and this reignited my love for rap music. I had a few failed starts at working on a solo album either due to my material not being good enough, or the producers I was working with falling off the face of the earth. Eventually I met Lang and we just formed Words Hurt. From that, Fuck That Pretty Boy Shit was born.

How did you and Lang end up working together?

Lang and I have never actually met, I am not 100% sure that he is even a real person. I knew him from my days writing at SYFFAL, he submitted some music, some of which I liked quite a bit. Eventually I did a guest appearance on his album Lang Vo Is An Asshole and as a favor I asked him to mix this little mixtape EP I made over Outkast beats. This fucker went and took all the vocals, and added original production to them, making them doper than they had ever been. From there Words Hurt was born. We found a formula that worked for us and ran with it.

Your new album is fueled in part, by an element of despair at the current state of rap culture; what do you feel needs to be done to bring us back from the fuck boy era?

I think if anything it is fuelled by a frustration with American Culture in general. Rap is just part of that. I just fucking hate posers, I always have, and yes I know I am way too fucking old to give a shit about posers, but I do. It’s ingrained in me. I think the current state of rap is awesome, but I also know nothing about the current popular state of rap. That shit is for 16 year olds and 16 year olds have always been suckers who follow trends and do all they can not to stand out. Fuck those assholes. I think our culture as a whole has completely gone that route. There are no true individuals, we are just a gang of tribes who identify solely with what we consume. It’s disgusting. I don’t think we can fix the current state of popular rap until we fix our society. In the meantime though, it is making for some truly awesome underground music. So its a boom for me and my tastes.

What do you think triggered this shift in taste, or is it just part of the cycle of trends?

I think it is natural to an extent. I think teenagers should be repulsed by the shit their parents like and vice versa. We are in a fully fledged generation gap at this point. My hope is that their tastes will evolve and they will move towards more quality younger cats. I think you kind of see it happening already, there is a movement towards something more lasting from younger hip-hop heads, not just people who like rap for driving around to. I also think us older folk need to get the fuck off our high horse and remember what it was like when we were young and totally going against the shit our parents liked. A lot of the shit we liked sucked too and has not aged well at all.

What are the pros and cons of putting music out totally independently vs. through a label?

The pros are that I can do whatever the fuck I want, whenever the fuck I want. I don’t have to tour. I don’t have to pretend to like people who are assholes. I don’t have to worry about being a disappointment to anyone but myself and I can make music without any concerns about what anyone else thinks. I had a bad experience with Hangar 18 and the Sweep The Leg album, where we worried too much about reaching certain markets, trying to make other people happy and making sure we had something that was commercially viable, as opposed to making the record we wanted. Mind you this was all bullshit pressure that we put on ourselves. We were in such a bubble that we created that we thought this was the right way to create; we sort of lost our way and compromised our principles for the idea of commerce. When the album came out and bombed commercially and critically, it was soul crushing. And it wasn’t anyone’s fault but our own. We had a much better version of the album, but we started focusing on the right guest appearance, or the catchy hook to sell to a car company or some shit, and what would work to make people say “hey” at a show.

After that album I made a conscious choice that I was only going to make music that I liked, and only when I had something I needed to get out. Being totally independent allows for that. The only con is that we do not have the mechanisms behind us that we would enjoy if we were on a label, so we have a smaller reach, but I think we are OK with that. We make fringe music for angry weird people, and that is a limited fucking audience. I like that audience because they don’t show up at school functions when I am with my kid, so I don’t have to have awkward conversations about my rap career within earshot of the other parents. I can be anonymous.

Do you feel it’s an advantage having the Def Jux name behind you, or do you feel people have an idea of how you should sound before they’ve even heard your music?

At this point I am not sure. I mean, it has been almost 10 years since the last Hangar 18 album. I think a lot of the people who supported us have aged out of the system and I really have no idea how to reach them. So I don’t know if it helps out. I guess to a certain class of rap fan the name will always help, but it probably does breed expectations that I am not sure I care to give a fuck about. It is a big part of the reason I wanted to have a group name instead of Alaska and Lang Vo or some shit. It kind of wipes the slate clean and allows it to live on its own.

As you mentioned earlier, you hooked up with some of your former Atoms Family members to record Sands a few years back; what prompted the ‘reunion’ and are we likely to hear any more from you guys in the future?

Sands was really a right place, right time kind of project. We were all working on Pawl’s film and Cryptic was doing the score. Pawl asked us to record a song to one of the beats for a companion cassette he was dropping with the film, so Cryptic, Wind and I recorded Sands. From there we just kept recording until we had an album. I would never rule something out. I think doing a full fledged Atoms project with everyone could be super fun and super dope. It would just be a matter of the planets lining up correctly for a few months. I would definitely be game though.

You’re always very receptive to people supporting your work on online platforms, is that a case of not wanting to bite the hand that feeds you?

Nah, I’m not really worried about biting the hand because I don’t make any real money off music, I make music because I love it. So I am not looking for the next big score, or the right Needle Drop review or whatever. I appreciate that people are sharing something and I am assuming they are doing it because they like it. It is really a way to say thank you for the time they took to check out our music. It means a lot to me.

What’s next for Words Hurt and your career in general?

We are finishing up a new summer single right now called Kings of Summer which features Windnbreeze, my old rap partner from Hangar 18 and that has a b-side called Eloise (Hey Young Girl), which was kind of inspired by the Nas song Daughters. I wanted to make a song that was about my kid, but was sort of general enough that it could relate to anyone in a father-daughter relationship. Its about my hopes and dreams for her. We are also in the very early planning stages for our next album, which we will probably start work on once Lang finishes his Reinforced Steel project with Kwam.

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Interview: Shawn Setaro (The Cipher podcast)

SHAWN SETARO

We recently caught up with Shawn Setaro, host of The Cipher podcast, to talk about some of the highlights from 150 episodes, how he chooses his guests, and much more.

For those that haven’t listened before, tell us about The Cipher podcast. How long have you been broadcasting?

The Cipher has been around since 2012. For the first 75 episodes we were called Outside the Lines With Rap Genius and had a slightly different format, but the core of the show has remained the same from the beginning.

What’s the process for choosing who appears on the show? Do you tend to have a wish list and approach them, or do guests sometimes ask to be invited on?

There are as many different ways to end up on the show as there are guests. Sometimes I’ll get approached by a publicist, or by an artist directly. I’ll reach out to a potential guest in person or via Twitter. At times, I’ll contact a publicist who I know is working with someone I’d like to have on the show. I’ll sometimes get suggestions from fans of the show of people they’d like to see. The best situation is when someone appears on the show, loves it, and recommends someone they know who they think should be a guest.

What we like about The Cipher is how the lesser-known guests often turn out to be the most interesting, like the recent episode with Anton Pukshansky. Who has surprised you the most?

Thank you! I loved how the Anton episode turned out as well. As far as surprise, I have to say that Thembisa Mshaka and Lisa Cortés were guests who turned out to have absolutely fascinating lives and careers in ways that I couldn’t possibly have anticipated.

Similarly, there have also been big names that we didn’t expect would have much to say. Do you think an artist like Paul Wall sees the show as a chance to be themselves, and perhaps change some misconceptions about them?

I hope that’s how people view the show! I think that even people who might not see those opportunities before they sit down with us usually realize within the first few minutes that this is a different kind of interview, and take the opportunity to share things they wouldn’t elsewhere.

Who has been the most insightful interviewee, and your personal favorite?

This is a tough one! There have been so many interviews where I learned a ton, and had a great time. As far as personal favorites, I always go back to our very first episode with Jean Grae. To see the way she responded to being asked questions about her music was eye-opening, and let me know that maybe we had something special. Also, our new episode with Fat Joe and Remy Ma is absolutely incredible. To see Fat Joe bouncing around the room talking about BDP, just as excited as he was when he was 17 and first heard The Bridge Is Over, is something I’ll never forget. And nothing will beat hearing Scarface singing Pink Floyd and Kiss tunes.

As far as interviews that were insightful, I always learn a ton from Saul Williams, and our recent episode with Phonte taught me a lot about the craft of rhyming. And I feel like I have a graduate degree in history after talking to Abiodun Oyewole of The Last Poets.

Have there been occasions where you imaged a guest would be really interesting, but they refused to open up?

This happens, but not very frequently. And even when I listen back to the rare interview that felt like it went poorly, it’s usually better than I remember.

Podcasts like The Cipher seem to be created as a hobby, by people who want to share their passion rather than just make money off of it. Would you say that’s accurate?

I can’t speak to what anyone else is doing. I think that most people who put the time and effort into making a good podcast would like to be remunerated in some way, whether they view it as a full-time occupation or not.

There are running costs of course. Is The Cipher self-funded, or is there some backing?

The Cipher is completely independent. I love the fact that I can ask what I want to ask, and not feel like I have to tailor my message to any other outlet’s brand or audience.

Do you manage to get much in the way of listener funding via Patreon?

We get some support, and I am absolutely blown away that people do contribute. I would obviously like more people to sign up, of course!

Does podcasting require much equipment, or is the set up pretty rudimentary?

It depends on your goals. You can make a podcast that sounds good with very minimal equipment. You can also spend a ton of money or record in a professional studio. We have good equipment and the show’s producer Josh Kross is a master at using it.

You are competing for listeners with other podcasts like Combat Jack and Pete Rosenberg [Juan Epstein, with Cipher Sounds], both of whom have been on The Cipher. Are there enough listeners to go round?

I hope so! In all seriousness, I really enjoy The Combat Jack Show and Juan Epstein. All of these shows are very different, despite some obvious surface similarities. I think audiences recognize that, and view us as complementary rather than competitive.

A few artists dabble in their own podcasts, like Ice T, Open Mike Eagle, and occasionally J-Zone and Homeboy Sandman. Do you listen to other hip-hop podcasts, and who do you think does them well?

I listen to some other hip-hop podcasts, though I can’t keep up with all of them! I really like shows by two of our former guests – DJ EFN’s Drink Champs show, which he co-hosts with Noreaga; and A Waste of Time, hosted by It’s The Real. I haven’t checked out Open Mike Eagle’s show yet, though I hear amazing things. I haven’t had time to really dig into Ice T’s show yet, or J-Zone’s. But I’ve read J-Zone’s interviews, which are awesome. I’m sure his show will be as well.

Catch the latest episode of The Cipher here, plus their extensive archive of previous shows. Shawn Setaro photo courtesy of Bill Wadman.