Best known as a member of legendary hip-hop group Jurassic 5, Soup (who also goes by the name Zaakir) has returned with a new album recorded under the name Fullee Love. We recently spoke to him about Free, White & 21, positivity in music, and the obligatory question around the current status of J5.
[This interview has been lightly edited for clarity].
Let’s talk about the new album; Free, White & 21. The title alludes to a phrase used in the 1940s, which you are subverting to relate to now. Can you tell me more about the concept?
The concept (for me) was just being able to go in a different direction without second-guessing the move. The phrase was just that “I’m free, I’m white and I can do anything.” I wanted to have that type of freedom when it came to this. So instead of following what you think I should be doing, I’m doing me and I’ma make u follow and get on board.
The album is also incredibly upbeat and positive, both in the lyrics and music. I found this inspiring, especially considering what you’ve been through in the year’s since J5 stopped making music (near-homelessness, returning to a regular job).
I’m working a regular job right now, and I’m dead ass! I’m waiting on my Geoffrey Owens moment as we speak. I wasn’t intentionally going for an upbeat/positive project, it just wrote itself, to be honest. But if it makes folks feel that way, that’s dope! Just cause my shit ain’t sharp (right now), doesn’t mean I’ma burn the house down (after hardship comes ease) shit just taking long [laughs].
Most Hip-Hop heads know you as Zaakir or Soup, but you’ve released the new album under the name Fullee Love. Does using a different name allow you to explore a different side of your creativity, and a new persona?
Most definitely! Many have done it before. It takes the focus off of expectations, even tho I still hear “It ain’t what I expected,” and I’m like “Good cause your ass shouldn’t be expecting.” People are something else, they get pissed when you wanna grow and go a different route, but want you to understand when they’ve moved on from you to something new.
I read in a previous interview where you said you prefer being in a group, but how being solo also allows you more freedom with no one to answer to. How do you feel now that you’ve cut a full album completely away from J5?
I love it! I wasn’t willing to take the shots back then cause my confidence sucked, so a group made it easier to hide when all hell broke loose [laughs]. Now…I want it all, the praise, the bullshit, the ladies, the wack comments (you name it). And it’s beautiful to not have to compromise on certain things.
I know its a well-worn subject, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask about J5. There’s been tours in recent years, and even an unreleased track that surfaced (2016’s Customer Service). What’s the status of the crew today, and will we ever get new music?
We’ve spoke, but we’ve spoke before, so for now…nah it ain’t looking like it [laughs].
Free, White & 21 sees you working with a sole producer; Nicholas Eaholtz, who is known for his work with The Internet. Your partnership and sound also reminds me of The Foreign Exchange (Phonte and Nicolay). Who inspires you among modern artists working today?
No one and I’m not hating, but I’m older than most, and a lot of the music isn’t for me, so it’s easy for me to continue with what I’ve already been rocking to…the classics. Foreign Exchange is dope, I always dug Phonte.
There’s also an obvious nod to Prince, ‘70s and ‘80s Funk and Soul, including a track titled Nile Rodgers. It must be quite a challenge to make a record that sounds timeless, both old and modern?
Yea, cause you really don’t know what will be considered timeless or not, you just make what feels right and let the chips fall where they may. That’s the stuff that shaped me during my youth (Prince, ‘70s/’80s Funk) so its only natural that’s what I’d wanna bring back.
What’s next for you as a solo artist? More music as Fullee Love, or Soup…?
I told you I’m waiting on that Geoffrey Owens moment [laughs]. More music for sure…I’ma make it first, then see which persona will headline it.
Finally, going back to the positivity on Free, White & 21, it sounds like you’re in a good place right now. Is that fair to say?
Musically I am for sure. I’m no longer worried about the reactions I’m subject to receive. I wish I woulda had this thought process a few years ago, I probably wouldn’t be moonlighting as somebody’s employee [laughs]. But hey…could be worse. Thank you for this moment, I appreciate your time and the questions…Free, White & 21 is out now…peep it!
***
Free, White & 21 is out now. Listen below and purchase here. Follow Fullee Love on Twitter and Instagram. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
Uncommon Nasa has just published his first collection of poetry and short stories; Withering. We recently spoke to the multi-talented artist about the new book, the music that gave him the confidence to write it, and more.
In the preface to Withering, Black-Tokyo writes of how you sometimes worried fans were not ready for the ‘real-life experiences and adult raps’ in your music. Withering is dark and intense in places, so I’m curious to know how you feel fans of your music will receive it?
It’s interesting that he touched on that in his preface because I hadn’t thought about my mindset before Halfway‘s release in a while. Prior to releasing Halfway I’d put out Land of the Way It Is and New York Telephone. Halfway was significantly different from those records in the fact that it dealt almost exclusively with the subject of one’s mortality. I try not to overthink reaction when I create something, but of course there’s some thought that you might lose people going so heavy.
That being said, it was the album I absolutely had to make at that time and as it turned out it became a lot more of what I’m known for now then anything else. Finding my voice on Halfway really set the tone for Written At Night which followed it and for forthcoming material. I feel like thanks to Halfway, a book like Withering is landing in accepting hands. We all know what to expect when I create something now and I think that had it’s genesis with Halfway.
There’s a line in Room Temp that captures this notion: “I’ve learned that passion and honesty make many people uncomfortable”. Do you find it easier to write about difficult and challenging things in poetry than in rap lyrics?
To me they are one in the same, all the poems in Withering were written over music of some sort. Poetry has a natural rhythm even when read off a page and for me it’s creation is always over a rhythm, thus the genre of rap. So it’s all connected. I find myself writing about difficult and challenging things all the time when I make music or write, but the goal is always to make those subjects less difficult and less challenging in doing that.
Your music is very vivid and reflective, but you seem to be searching far deeper inside yourself in the poetry and short stories of Withering.
I think my lyrics laid out in poetic form in Withering give the reader a deeper understanding of the songs. It presents them in a new way. I feel that someone that’s never heard one of my songs could read this book and get the full measure of it. While someone really familiar with my music could read it and get a new experience entirely, that was our goal at least in putting it together. Ultimately, I am one artist, creating things, so all of it is connected. From lyrics to poetry to writing fiction, to anything else I imagine, they all share that common thread of connectivity.
As a writer myself, I often have a story idea, but don’t yet know if I want to use it for a novel, a short story or a film script. How do you decide what gets to be a poem and what becomes a song?
They are one in the same for me. That’s the beauty of poetry, I can always write a song and then transcribe it onto the paper in poetic formation or I can write a poem and later set it to music. Poetry and music are forever intertwined.
Going back to how fans of your music may receive Withering, it’s interesting that you have written the book as Uncommon Nasa. Did you consider using your real name or another pseudonym instead, perhaps maybe to separate your poetry from music, and find it’s own audience?
There was some discussion about this prior to the release of the book. I do want to get my given name out there more as a published poet and author. If you notice inside the book my given name is in the listing and it is technically co-written under my given name in the ISBN meta data. That being said, I think the idea behind RYME PRESS is to bring people known in the rap world into the literary & poetry world so this book is a bridge.
It’s my introduction to that world, a world I’ve wanted to be a part of. I plan to write more and most likely will pursue that aspect of my art under my given name. It’s funny, when you turn 40 and have spent your entire life under a pseudonym, you start to really want to represent your own name too. I love music, but it’s becoming only one aspect of what I can do as an artist.
Using your music name also begs the question; is Uncommon Nasa the emcee the same as Uncommon Nasa the author?
I am certainly the same person in either medium. I think as an artist you use different mediums to say different things in different ways, but I’m sure that it’ll be from the same voice.
As a fan of your music, I couldn’t help but read Withering in your voice, which is quite distinctive anyway. Were you conscious that people will likely find themselves doing that?
To some degree yes, obviously a lot of the poetry in the book has a recorded record of it in my voice that people may already be familiar with. But even with the fiction in the book, my aim is to give my characters a particular tone that can be found throughout my work as it continues.
When we last spoke, around the release of Written at Night, we discussed how your music has a very close connection with New York, used as a character almost itself. Withering also evokes imagery of the city, but at the same time also feels more rural and earthy at moments. Your Hands Will Turn To Rust comes to mind.
I Love New York City and urban life in general, but I think some of my writing can gleam experiences that I felt when I was touring heavily across the rest of the country as well. Writing is something where you are drawing upon your own life experiences, but also on the experiences of others that you’ve known that don’t have that same background. That’s how you tell diverse stories.
In terms of the piece you mentioned, that’s about my early childhood. Up to the age of 6 I lived in a rural part of Long Island and that piece touches on some of those memories.
Has the experience of writing and having Withering published inspired you to do more?
Absolutely, I’m very proud of the work and incredibly pleased with the way I was able to collaborate with Alex (of RYME PRESS) to get to that final product. It’s inspired me to finish more writing and given me new ways to approach writing lyrics and poetry. I’m in the midst of writing another short story now and beginning a novel. Hopefully those can land publishers as well.
***
Withering is available now, published by RYME PRESS. Order your copy here. Follow Uncommon Nasa on Twitter. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche. Uncommon Nasa photo by Andrew Doench.
Today we premiere the latest single from the upcoming album by producer BP and Queensbridge icon Tragedy Khadafi, Immortal Titans. Mastermind also features guest raps from Apathy, and cuts by DJ Stitches. Listen below, then read on for exclusive interviews with BP, Tragedy and Apathy.
Tragedy; Tell us about Immortal Titans. How did you and BP connect, and decide to do a full album?
[Tragedy] I chose to work with BP after we did Upper Echelon. After that one joint I felt a real connection. It was instant chemistry. Sometimes the type of chemistry we have can take weeks, months, or even years, but with us it was off top. Automatic and organic. What started as a single, went on to be an EP and ultimately an album…an album I’m extremely excited about. I feel like a Young Trag spawned from the Juice Crew.
A lot of the featured artists on the album are from the new wave of gangster rap, clearly inspired by Roc Marciano, Ghost and Raekwon, but also vets like yourself, Kool G Rap and more. Do they look up to you as a mentor, and someone who can help them navigate the industry?
I can mentor the new wave by being an example. They can look at my career and see the ups and downs and understand the game they working with. They can take the best parts, and utilize ‘em to their advantage. The mistakes, the trials and tribulations…learn from those as well, but don’t repeat them.
As an older head who has been listening to your music for a long, long time, I was always curious about the transition from Intelligent Hoodlum to Tragedy Khadafi. Do you look at them at two different personas, or just representative of where your life was each time?
The question is the answer. They’re both me at different stages of my life for who I was and going through at the time. There wouldn’t be one without the other.
Tragedy: Saga of a Hoodlum turned 25 years old in June, and Intelligent Hoodlum was 28 years ago. That’s serious longevity in this game. How do you feel about your place in rap history?
I don’t feel, I know my place is solidified. It’s carved and etched in stone. Whether it be mainstream acknowledgment, or the right kind of acknowledgment in terms of the true heads who uphold and understand this culture. I have stood the test, and have continued to push my craft forward…especially with a producer beside me like BP.
Do you think your passion for making music will ever fade? And does it ever feel like a grind rather than a creative process?
Sometimes it fells like both, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. But the combination gives me a lot of balance to my life. It’s worked for me thus far, I don’t feel I’ve lost my energy over the years, especially considering all the years that I’ve put in this. I look at some of my peers, and watched them fade into obscurity. I think knowing it’s a grind as well as a creative process and being able to balance the two, gives me that edge.
BP; Immortal Titans has an impressive list of features, including rhyme vets like Nature and Apathy, plus emcees making big noise on the indy circuit right now (Hus Kingpin, SmooVth). When its a collaborative album like this, who gets to select the features?
[BP] Features are always tricky. My philosophy has always been to let it happen organically. Nature and Ali Vegas are artists I work with consistently and have close relationships with. So those came together without thinking. I have listened to Apathy for awhile and he is someone who has a great deal of respect for Tragedy, so Menza from DCM knew Apathy and hooked it up. The Winners (SmooVth, Rozewood & Hus Kingpin) are all originally from Long Island. I met Hus down in Atlanta at AC3. SmooVth is someone who I’ve spoken with for over a year, and Rozewood is from Amityville like me. Again, Menza connected the dots here. My man DJ Stitches did all the scratches. Everything felt natural and every artist added their own flavor to the album.
There’s a lot of legacy that comes with producing for an artist like Tragedy. Considering he’s worked with Large Professor, Marley Marl and Prince Paul amongst others, did you feel any pressure?
The only pressure I ever feel is giving the emcee I’m working with the inspiration to make a great record. Music and art is subjective. What one person loves, another may hate. I just strive for making the artist feel the vibe. I’m influenced by those who came before me. Paul is from my hood. We from the same environment. Large Pro, Premier, RZA are all a part of my style. That is what we do on this journey of life, you pick up techniques, ideas, and new tastes from the people we come in contact with. All those producers are represented on here because they are a part of me. So I am never competing with anyone in music. I can only be the best I can be.
Did you go back and revisit his catalog, and was it hard not to be influenced too much by it?
There are producers that make beats totally different than me, whose style I love. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to make music with their vibe. I’m a huge Tragedy fan so I knew exactly what to bring to the table, and what I wanted to hear him on. The finished product in my opinion includes all the elements of what a perfect Tragedy record would sound like. It feels good to say Immortal Titans is exactly what I hoped for.
We always like to get an insight from producers on the gear they use. Can you describe your basic set-up and studio essentials?
The equipment is just the instrument I use to create my vision. Everything from my catalog has come form an MPC2000 or MPC2500 and Pro-Tools. I have never felt limited in any way with those two pieces. It’s never really been about the equipment to me, it’s the mind behind it. There’s some producers from my hood who every month would tell me about some other console, or equipment or plug-in they just got, and all the money they’ve spent, and I ain’t still hear a single beat from ‘em, not a one [laughs].
What can we expect next from you after Immortal Titans?
More of the same. I have an EP coming out the beginning of next year. It has nothing but legends on it. It’s the first in a series, but I’m not ready to reveal the name and concept. I guarantee my fans will dig it tho. I have an instrumental album beginning of 2019. There’s another secret project with Menza from DCM that I’m extremely excited about that will be announced soon. I know everything is vague but when the time is right the fans will know everything. Trust there is more BP music on the way. Stay tuned…
Apathy; what are some of your early memories coming up as a fan of Hip-Hop and listening to Tragedy Khadafi/Intelligent Hoodlum? Like which song (or songs) really stood out, and why?
[Apathy] My oldest memory was first seeing/hearing Black And Proud on Yo! MTV Raps. The beat was amazing, and it was important for me as a young white kid, to see such a dope, positive message. It was one of the songs that set the precedent for my respect and love for black culture. But in retrospect, my best memory is far more personal. In ‘93 I was living with my father, and Grand Groove came out. I had the video taped on a VHS Tape, and played it CONSTANTLY. My dad passed away in 2012… but when I hear that song, it pretty much brings me to tears, reminiscing about living at his house and being so attached to that song.
Being that you’re a longtime fan of Trag, how do you feel about finally having the chance to collaborate with him on today’s premiere for, Mastermind?
It’s surreal. This dude is such a dope, powerful lyricist. And when he hit me up to be on HIS shit… I was BEYOND gassed.
***
Immortal Titans is out August 17. Pre-order from here now. Follow Tragedy and BP on Twitter, and on Instagram here and here. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
Today we’re premiering new music by Vanderslice, from the upcoming project, The Best Album Money Can Buy. Following on from the recent North American Money with Slug and Evidence, Bone Museum features brutal verses from the always-great Vic Spencer, over a sinister Vanderslice headnodder. Listen below, and keep scrolling to read our interview with the man himself.
Tell us about the new project, The Best Album Money Can Buy. There’s some heavy features on there.
It took a few years to get together, I had no intention of doing a compilation. The feature game is stale and there are tiers. You can get the twitter guys who sell verses for 200 dollars, you can capitalize on people who run holiday sales, and what not. I just wasn’t interested in being a part of that musical miasma. It’s not organic, and at the end of the day if everyone can get access to something, it inherently loses value and becomes uncool. The Best Album Money Can Buy was done organically and that’s what separates it from the pack.
It has an interesting mix of guest emcees, from those doing great work right now, like Vic Spencer and Conway, to rhyme vets like Percee P. Who was the easiest and most fun to work with?
I reached out to Slug as I was going to do a small batch of 7” singles. Slug reached out to Evidence, we have a rapport at this point, we’ve done like 6 songs for various records and shit. They turned out North American Money, and then it was just on from there. They both showed me love when they really didn’t have to, and I couldn’t afford either one of em at that point. That was by far the best experience on the album, because from that song I realized that I had way more reach than I give myself credit for. It was the song that set the tone for the album.
Previous projects like Everything’s Awesome have alternated between tracks with vocals and straight instrumental joints. Is that a strategic decision, maybe because listeners can get bored of an album with no vocals?
That was a strategic decision, I like beat tapes, I like when the music takes you on a journey and all of the beats for Everything’s Awesome were made and chosen before we ever got any raps done. We had the Winning Team record with AWAR and he used a lot of the Everything’s Awesome Beats, AOTP used Broken Safeties, my man Maffew Ragazino rhymed on a few of ’em as well. We didn’t want to wait for those songs to come out, and we didn’t want to drop a straight instrumental tape, so we filled the gaps.
How do you decide which emcees you want to work with? Is there a wish list, or does it inevitably come down to schedules, availability and budget?
There’s a wish list. I crossed off all five of my top five rappers in 2017 into 2018. Prodigy, Ghostface, Percee P, Styles P, & Jadakiss all rapped on my beats.
Going back to instrumentals for a minute; I’m always keen to know if producers such as yourself see beat tape material as a way of showcasing your beats for sale, or as standalone works that don’t necessarily need vocals. There’s definitely a difference. How do you see it?
I try and find a theme to follow. If you’re familiar with my releases we did a tape called Smuggle Rap. It was all rock & synth stuff and laced with 1980’s drug culture references, we’ve done two gospel tapes, and I don’t even like freelancing beats to be honest. If you got cash in hand we’ll work with you, but there’s no pool of beats to choose from, there’s no leases, or any of that bullshit. I’m more in line with selling music not selling beats. I’d rather be an artist than a hustler. Producers are wack man leasing beats and selling meet & greets like they’re fuckin Quincy Jones out here. Don’t ever let someone sell you the dream.
Another thing I always like to ask producers about is their studio gear. Describe your basic set up.
I use the MPCx and a prime selection of records. My man Steez plays keys, bass, and guitar. I pluck the samples, lay the drums, and do a mock up of the bass, or at least provide the vision and Steez bangs out the layers to give everything the necessary textures.
Now that The Best Album Money Can Buy is done and about to drop, what’s next after that?
We have a lot of beats on AWAR’s Spoils of War. We did the songs with Scarface, Anthony Hamilton, Cormega, Styles P & Jadakiss so we’re excited for that. We have a 7” ep called the Trendsetter which features Ty Farris, Vic Spencer, G Perico, Daniel Son, and my man Capo. We produced an ep for my longtime friend Verbal Tec which is a completely different lane. It’s much more soulful and he’s a black nationalist but I’m super proud of that shit, it took like 9 years to make. We also produced a project with Diabolic coming out on Coalmine Records. All of these are done too they’re in the tank so we’re gonna be busy.
***
The Best Album Money Can Buy is out July 12, and you can get it here. Follow Vanderslice and Vic Spencer on Twiter. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
Omar ‘O.C.’ Credle needs little introduction, having built an incredible catalog of music since the early 90s, both as a solo artist and as part of the mighty Diggin’ In The Crates crew. Gingerslim recently sat down with him for an in-depth talk about new music, longevity, the history of the classic Time’s Up, and growing up with Pharoahe Monch.
Its been a couple of months since you released your latest album, A New Dawn. Are you pleased with how it’s been received so far?
Yeah, man. I mean I don’t have no high expectations anymore, for me it’s just about the music. Whatever’s gonna be, gonna be, you know? It’s not an excitement in that sense for me, it’s just about the music. I mean it’s always been about the music for me really; if people hear it they hear it and if they don’t they don’t. And if they don’t, then they’ll get round to it eventually.
There’s a lot of positivity on A New Dawn, from the lyricism to the title itself; did you set out to make an album like that, or is that just how it progressed as you started working on it?
That’s how it progressed really. I mean, I’m not the same 20 or 30-year old I once was, but with that being said I just write about everyday life and I feel that that’s something people can relate to. And we’re dealing with an industry that’s sort of divide and conquer with youth and maturity, so my thing is just to make sure that what I’m talking about can relate to everybody. That’s it.
And with the title specifically, what was the thinking behind that? Does it feel like a new dawn for you right now?
I believe it’s a new dawn for all us. Shit, we got Trump in office [laughs]. Just everything that’s happening in the world, man. I mean it’s always been the same things, but now it’s all at an extreme, you know? I just said to someone the other day, it used to be when you saw a woman scantily clad it was rare – unless you were looking at Playboy or some shit – but nowadays it’s just normality. Me being a grown man now, it doesn’t excite me no more cos everybody’s doing it.
I think that’s the same for everyone now though, regardless of age, because it’s so prevalent.
It’s so prevalent, it’s crazy. And that’s not what I signed up for, you know? But that’s life.
Now, you’ve been in the game for over 20 years and I know there are a lot of artists from back then who are pretty disillusioned with the current state of hip-hop; is that how you feel, or do you think it’s going to survive regardless?
It’s going to survive regardless, man. I definitely wag my finger at the younger artist cos I was their age once and that’s where some of the disconnect comes in. I know when I started out and artists older than me tried to tell me something, I wasn’t trying to hear it. You know, it’s sort of that renegade attitude – you’re young, you’re not thinking about your mortality. All you’re thinking about is having fun, partying and doing whatever you’re doing, without thinking about any consequences. So for all of my peers, if they’re going to continue doing this, then just make the music and stop complaining.
That’s a great attitude though, because I know so many artists and fans who spend forever complaining about what they don’t like, rather than actually promoting what they do like.
Exactly, let the music talk. In my opinion, truth be told, a lot of people shouldn’t be making music still cos they’re just not good at it no more. They get stale, they get stuck and they get disgruntled, but that’s not me.
You’re also one of the rappers from your generation who people tend to associate with your earlier work, rather than your more recent releases; does that get frustrating for you?
Not at all. I know a lot of people came up on my music and we’re the same age, we’re in our 40’s and people have families now. But I get a lot of “yo when’s the new album coming out?” from people my age and it’s like, it is out. Even if we give it away for free, y’all still don’t know it’s out. You’ve got the internet, you’ve got Google, Spotify, all these things, so what’s your problem? I mean if you’re really not looking, that means you’re really not checking for me, so why even ask me.
And what do you think is the key to maintaining that longevity? What sort of advice would you give to anyone trying to survive as long as you have?
You gotta talk about life, man, it’s all around us. That’s the whole premise of a new dawn, like each day you wake up and you got the chance to do things, accomplish things, work on yourself. Everyday life is the blueprint to music, that’s not even my opinion, that’s a fact. Every day you wake up, you have the chance to tell a story, you’re making history. I just think a lot of people get stuck, you know. Like I’m not stuck in the 90s. I know I came out in the 90s, but I’m still here 20 years later. People tend to want you to make the same sounds over and over and over, but I can’t do that. I couldn’t catch lightning in a bottle even if I tried [laughs]. But I don’t wanna do it anyway.
That actually leads into my next question cos I’ve always been impressed with how varied your albums have been. Like the work you did with Ray West for example, was a lot more laid-back than say the DITC stuff and then again with Trophies, that was a whole other sound. Is that important to you to mix it up like that, is that how you stay motivated?
Well, you already answered the question cos that’s very important. People don’t get it though. I’m sure you’re a hip-hop enthusiast yourself and of course, me being a fan of the music myself, we don’t want to hear the artists that I like keep making the same record over and over. I wanna see progression; I wanna see you push your limit, I wanna see if you was really meant to do this. Some people really stand the test of time and some people you can tell only did it cos it was trendy. And I really love the music and its people who support my music that really love it too, so why would I cheat them out of that.
That’s a good attitude to have, man. Now obviously you’ve worked with some amazing producers over the years, but I was wondering if there is anyone you would still like to get into the studio with? Do artists at your level still have those sort of dream collaborations?
I mean if you know my catalog, then you know not I’m not a huge collaborator; for me, it just has to make sense. I know a lot of people in the game of course, but I think to give you an example – Rakim and G Rap wasn’t supposed to make a record together, if that makes sense?
Yeah, I get you.
Kane and G Rap made more sense than those two. It has to make sense for me to do a collaboration with somebody and that’s the only reason I haven’t done it. And secondly, I really don’t go out too much unless it’s about some business [laughs].
I was going to ask, do you do a lot of live shows these days?
I do a lot of live shows, but here’s the thing – and once again it goes back to my 90’s alum – they don’t promote us, feel like since we came out 15-20 years ago, this is what we’re worth so this is what they’re going to pay us. And my thing is, I know my worth. I’d rather put out the music and not do the shows. I’d love to be doing shows every month, but I’d rather just put out the music and build the catalog if you’re not going to pay me what I’m worth cos eventually it’s going to break you know? That mold of oh since you came out in ’94 that means you should be paid $500, or flying 18 hours for $1000; it doesn’t make sense to me. And as I said I know my worth, so that’s what I try to get across to a lot of my alum. You know just make the music and if it’s dope, then people are going to accept it and you’re going to get booked. But a lot of people are just taking shorts and they’re kinda fucking the game up. You know these promoters wanna be your friends and things like that, but I don’t wanna be friends. This is business, straight up. So yeah, I pick my battles. Let’s put it like that.
Well, that’s a good way to be, man, cos you’re still here.
Exactly.
Just going to back to Trophies, which is definitely one of my favorite projects of yours over the years. How was it working with Apollo Brown and also Mello Music as a whole? They all seem really on point over there.
It was dope. When Apollo reached out to me we had a long conversation and then maybe the next day he sent me like 30 beats. I sifted through them and then we just got to work. I think it took me like two months to write and then finally he flew me out to The D, picked me up from the airport. He was like “yo I booked the studio for a week”, but I was like we ain’t going to need a week and I think I knocked the album out in less than eight hours on the first night.
Oh shit. Is that how you always work?
It depends on the producer I’m working with, but in his case, I didn’t wanna be doing it via email, you know? I was really into what he sent me and he wanted to do it hands on too. But yeah I mean we came up at a time when we couldn’t bullshit when we went to the studio. It was like 100 an hour, you had to buy your own reel to reel tapes and all of that, so I never go into the studio and waste time. That’s always been my thing; I never go in the studio unless I’m ready to work. I don’t go in there to write, I don’t go in there with a bunch of dudes and drink; that’s just not my thing.
You mentioned you have worked with people via email and so when you do put together a track or whatever in that way, does it turn out differently? If you’re there in person is it more likely to evolve in new directions, whereas over email the process is more linear?
It’s fairly similar but, for example, I did an EP with this cat from Australia called Debonair P and obviously, if his budget had allowed for him to fly me out to Australia I would’ve definitely done it. But in that scenario it made sense to do it like that but I still took my time and just not went in the studio until I’m ready. And then again to make sure, we go back and forth cos I don’t want anybody thinking I did it in two days, so I’m not putting my all into it. I’ve only done one like that but I still gave it 200% so they would feel like we been in the studio together.
Now going back to the early days, I know you were the second rapper to be signed to Serchlite after Nas. At the time did you feel like that was a major turning point for you and your career?
Yeah. I mean, I did the song with Prince and Monch in ’91, so it took like three years after that, man. Three years. It was a little discouraging trying to get a deal after doing the single and the video of Organized Konfusion’s album; I was at a tipping point, so to speak. You know, if it happens it happens, if it don’t it don’t. Then Serch got offered the position as vice-president at Wild Pitch and also EMI came on board as the distributor, so it was like better now than never. I didn’t care who I was signed to at that point.
I read in one of your previous interviews, that you considered yourself as a sort of antidote to the direction that rap was taking back then. When you recorded Time’s Up was that a sort of response to the way that a lot of artists were going at that time?
Probably subconsciously, but I hated that record.
Really?
Word. Serch was the driving force behind that record being the lead single because at first I felt that it was incomplete. It was just two verse and then I added the Slick Rick thing, let Roc Raida scratch it in, but I just felt like it wasn’t a complete record. But sometimes you can’t just listen to yourself, everybody around me was like trust this is it, you know? I took their judgment as that it must be okay, but at the same time when you put that first record out, it can define your career. So that was the only thing I was kinda afraid of, that people wouldn’t respond to it, but then I got the total opposite.
Is that how you still feel no? Cos I mean for me and a lot of my friends, that’s one of the greatest records of the era.
No, I feel good about it, like yo it’s a blessing. If that’s what people know me for and they don’t know anything else out of my catalog, I’m fine with that. That’s a record that’s lasted 20 years, it’s stood the test of time, so how can I be mad at that?
Now, you grew up opposite Pharoahe, is that right?
Yeah I grew up across the street from Monch. I moved to Jamaica, Queens and he lived right across the street.
So that’s how you first came to connect with Organized, but how did you first link up with DITC?
I met Lord Finesse on the very first Source Tour, with Pharoahe and Prince. Finesse was on that tour, Biz Markie, Shante, MC Serch – that’s how I met him – Almighty RSO, who had Benzino who was one of the owners of The Source. Then on a few of those dates Finesse brought Buckwild along with him, so that’s how I met Buck and that’s how my history started with Diggin’.
Coming back to the present to finish off; now the album is done, what’s next for you? Anything else in the pipeline?
I just started on the last installment. It’s a three-part series with Same Moon Same Sun and A New Dawn, so me and Show are just starting on the last installment which is called Blood Moon and so I’m getting to work on that. It’ll probably be out later in the year.
Oh so quite soon then.
Yeah, I’m not stopping, man. My hand is hot right now and I ain’t letting it go cold.
That’s good to hear, man. And that’s with Showbiz you said?
Yeah, Show is the executive producer on the first two and I just let him pick everything. People think it’s me but it’s really Show picking all the music and then I just take a bunch of tracks home, write to them and then that’s our formula.
Well, it’s working.
Definitely.
That’s about it from me, but thank you for talking with me.
I appreciate you making the call, I appreciate you doing this.
No, we appreciate it and it’s been good to connect with you. We’ll speak soon.
No doubt, Tim. Peace.
***
A New Dawn by O.C. is out now. Cop it over at Bandcamp, and follow O.C. on Twitter here.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.
Pharoahe Monch is, without doubt, one of the most gifted emcees of all time, and held in the highest regard by his peers and a dedicated fanbase around the world. He recently took time out of his tour schedule to speak to Gingerslim about what we can expect from the upcoming new album, the story behind the Organized Konfusion classic, Stress, winning a Grammy, and more.
[This interview was conducted a few months back when Pharoahe Monch was on tour in London. It has been lightly edited for clarity].
How’s the tour been going so far? I know you always speak highly of the UK when you visit.
Yeah really, really good. Because you’ve always shown love for American hip-hop in general and international acts, but more importantly for my Organized Konfusion stuff and my solo stuff; it’s been accepted very well here.
That’s good to hear, man. It’s coming up to the four year anniversary of PTSD, and I’ve read in a couple of interviews that you’re working on a new album. Is that still in the works?
Yeah it’s almost done, just waiting for the features. It’s more of a rock fuelled album and with a band, so it’s been taking a while to put together, even though the tracks have been pretty much there. In my mind I keep adding another string arrangement, or another vocalist, or bringing in a keyboard player I want, or a sample or some shit.
Yeah right, it’s a whole different dynamic when you’ve got band.
Right. So some of the shit is straight original, some of it is interpolations of stuff and in that way it still keeps in line with hip-hop in a sense. The temperament I think is hip-hop in essence, but I think the hardcore fans who have followed me and have let me grow, they’re going to fuck with it heavy. Cos it’s really heavy bars, it’s barred out, like Internal Affairs, Organized Konfusion shit.
And what made you want to take in that direction?
It’s something I’ve wanted to do for like 15 years. Right after the Desire album, I was like I’ve wanted to do heavy, hardcore, dark, evil stuff for years. That’s actually where it was going after Internal Affairs, like you can tell cos even the cover is pretty dark on that album. But then I went through so much industry-wise, I appreciated what I learned spiritually and in terms of inspiration, to get me through the legal wars with the label and then getting off the label. So Desire was about having the will to push and the people who inspire me on what to gravitate to; you know like being able to work through those moments and come out the other side. Desire was such a successful record, with the soul singers and what have you – Push was really huge – so I was kind of in a bind in terms of what direction to go cos I always want to keep changing.
So I went to my record label and I was like, “yo I wanna do this rock shit” and they were kinda hesitant, so I was like half the persona is rock, half the persona is disco and it’s launched online as two different campaigns. Cos I got records that make you dance and I got records that make you nod your head. The campaign was perfect since everything was going digital, but we just didn’t know if we could release records that fast as a label. In my opinion, how it’s being done now, is how I wanted it done back then. Get the records done, then release them. But at the time, that was the pinnacle of when they realized that records weren’t selling anymore, so they were like “we don’t even know what to do”. So me and my manager formed a company, W.A.R. Media, and we did a totally independent record. One thing he said to me was, “Your career already spanned so far, so you’ve got fans from Simon Says, some fans from Push, some fans from Organized; why don’t you just make a straight rhyme record, stand on a milk-crate and rap to the people independent”.
Well that was the W.A.R. album and it sold more than Desire, maybe not cos of the temperament of the album, but because we caught the wave when the industry was changing and I said look I need your support. I’m standing on the corner and I’m rapping for food; you decide whether you want to give me some food or not. And my fans just supported the fuck out of the record. The Still Standing track was on there, so we got some radio play cos we had Jill Scott on it and she came through to do the video, bless her heart. Yeah the Still Standing thing helped a lot actually cos we were basically touring that record for four years off the strength of a couple of songs on there. And it was very feature-heavy: Immortal Technique, Jean Grae, Royce Da 5’9″, Styles P; like with Internal Affairs, I went back to wanting to work with my favorite artists.
Then with PTSD I really wanted to speak introspectively about who I am on the inside. Ever since Organized Konfusion you know I’d been rapping from the perspective of a bullet, or an unborn baby, taking on these metaphors, so PTSD was like “no, who the fuck are you, who’s Troy?” and I wanted to talk about the emotional and mental struggle I went through when I was taking medication for my asthma.
Which brings me to now and this record is culminating to be artistically all of those things. You know I’m a huge Led Zeppelin fan, Black Sabbath fan, Iron Maiden fan, I’m a Metallica fan; so in terms of hip-hop artists who have dabbled in other genres, I still feel like I have something to contribute. And that’s hip-hop to me cos you know when I first started, I would listen to the radio and I’d say to my partner that we can do something just as good, if not better than that and add something to the culture. When you hear this new shit you’re going to think nothing sounds like this. And I think that’s hip-hop in itself or original hip-hop. It was all about coming up with a move that no one else was doing, or lettering that no one else was doing. Now it’s all just copy, copy, copy. I think for me this will be invigorating and beautiful to my spirit if the fans take to it, cos it’s like nothing I’ve ever done before; it’s a challenge.
Now I know PTSD was a very personal project for you and it’s also regarded as some of your best work; is it hard to follow on from something like that?
I’ve learned a few things about that from my solo career and even when I was in the group, cos on the first record some of the lyricism was critically acclaimed. But then we followed that with a record about just trying to be passionate about what we were going through and then we followed that with a themed record. Then later, in my solo career after Internal Affairs, it was like so how do we follow this album? I think you just have to be honest with yourself, completely; it’s a mainstay thing that has been proven to work, especially in hip-hop.
You cannot lie to the culture of hip-hop. If they see you in a video, or they see you on stage, you’re not fooling anyone; this may be a hit record or whatever, but they don’t believe it’s you. For me, I have a passionate heart for love, but I also have a passionate heart for dark music [laughs], so it might trip a lot of people out how dark we go on the record. I like horror!
Well you’ve implemented aspects of that before in your songs, so I don’t think it’ll be a massive shock to your original fanbase.
Yeah I think if you’re a true fan, you’re gonna be like “Pfft, this is not too different from shit he’s said before”. We just really tried to grab hold and drive it home fully, so if other people are not like, “This guy’s crazy, I don’t fuck with this guy”, then I haven’t done my job [laughs].
I remember the first time I heard Stress, it blew me away in terms of your flow and your rhyme structures; did it feel like that to you at the time, like you were pushing boundaries?
The culture was responsible for that song back then and I’ll tell you why. You’ve got Tribe, Brand Nubian, De La Soul, The Jungle Brothers, Leaders of the New School, KMD and Souls of Mischief, all of these groups that all sound different, so the culture is really flourishing in ’92, ’93, ’94. You’re listening and thinking these dudes are fucking amazing, so then you’re looking for specific things to help you find a lane that defines who you are. When I first heard that song, I was like THIS is Organized Konfusion. And not only is it Organized Konfusion, this has to be a single. It’s obviously not what you would consider a single, even at that time, but I just knew it had to be. This was going to be the song that would cement us, whether as underground or just weird, or whatever.
Then the next step was we met Michael Lucero, the video director, who passed away a few years after – he also did the 93 ‘Til Infinity video. He heard the song and he was like “You guys need to look like stress!” In fact he’s another guy who’s responsible for my career growing. I was about 60lbs heavier than I am now, when we were shooting the video and he grabbed me by the collar and said “You’re this big fucking guy but you’re so timid. I need you to look into this camera and be huge.” It was like he saw something in my psyche cos although I was an MC, I was an introvert. So that’s when I was like, what are you doing if you’re not giving it up? What are you holding back for? So for that song we were pushing the boundaries of our own limitations.
You won a Grammy last year for your work on the Miles Ahead soundtrack. Did you ever envision something like that happening in your career?
I got a Grammy for being a part of it, it was Robert Glasper’s soundtrack. But yeah when we were working on the song in the studio, we were all kinda thinking we had a chance to slip in and snatch a win.
And was it very different working with someone like Glasper?
He’s just got that Midas touch you know? So I was like yeah I might get a Grammy [laughs].
So what’s next after the tour?
Finish the record. Finish, finish, finish. When I started it was about five years ahead of its time and I could tell with certain things people would have been like [whistles]. Now with time closing in, it’s about two years ahead of its time [laughs].
Well that seems like a good place to leave it, but thanks so much for talking with me.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.
You’ve always kept it pretty varied from project to project in terms of the overall sound and production choices. Is that important to you, to keep mixing things up like that?
Yes, consistency is very important for each project, and diversity is needed for each project. I do not try to repeat myself or redo myself. I look at every album as another day in my life. Some of my fans can kick it with me for well over a week, depending on how many days out of my life they get familiar with.
Is that one of the keys to longevity do you think?
No, not the key, but an option. The question is, is longevity my option in this game? Am I trying to be Duke Ellington with 200 albums, or more modest like a D’Angelo, who has just three albums in over 20 years.
And does each project come with a different way of working, depending on who you’re working with, or do you have a fairly formulaic approach to writing and creating them?
What I really treasure behind most of the records I record is the joy of working with just one producer. It creates a certain diversity between each project, that you could pinpoint almost immediately, and you can bet on consistency from start to finish.
Your most recent release is The Blueprint alongside Shafiq Husayn. Can you give us a bit of background on the project? It’s a mixtape of sorts right?
It’s an album, but it’s also a mixtape. It’s the continuation of my idea behind York. Over half of the production on that record was previously released by artists and their records. So I tapped into beats that no one else had access to, so it gave it a sense of exclusivity. But since the beats have been released, it could also be considered more of a mixtape. Me and Shafiq have always planned to work…this was our first jab at it and I think it’s gonna make an impact on quite a few of our listeners out there.
I remember reading an interview with you and Exile, where he said that sometimes you have to get rid of classic songs to make a classic album, in reference to making, Below the Heavens. That must take some vision and a lot of resolve, being able to see past the strength of the song on its own.
Most definitely. Creating a record with that type of foresight is easier said than done, but a key part of how we work together. Like I was dying to put certain tracks on Below The Heavens that were dope, but didn’t quite fit the narrative or vibe, so we put ‘em to the side. That’s why we dropped, In The Beginning, which was a batch of gems originally recorded for BTH, that we never had a chance to release during its era.
I think for me at the time, NoYork was a very challenging and experimental album and the features made it seem like you were a co-star rather than driving force behind the album. Does that ring true with how you made the album?
Nah, not at all. That album never came to full fruition. What was ultimately released was the demo’s for NoYork, which due to label complications we never had the chance to finish. Everyone featured knew these were demos. But at the end of the day, people liked the promo tape so we released it in demo form.
How hard was it to encapsulate the L.A. beat scene on a single record?
It was tough. But can you imagine if we actually created that record properly with the allotted budget, and everyone on gear?! Man! I don’t think people realized that we brought in the entire LA beat scene for that album. I wish we could do it again. The movie for it was crazy!!
There was another interview I read where you said you keep your experiences as a father completely separate from your art. I was wondering why you decided to do that, as a lot of art is inspired either directly or indirectly by what the artist is going through in life.
I feel I’m very open, or at least that I’ve grown to be in some of my newer records. I talk a lot about being a father and not being a father, it comes with the anvil of honesty in my art. I can never not be true, I’m Blu.
Is it hard to keep the two separate like that?
No, but I can imagine that trying to be someone you’re not, can become very difficult after a while. I’m me, so I do that until that doesn’t work. Right now, in Hip-Hop it’s working, so I’m doing Hip-Hop!
You never struck me as the sort of rapper who was out to achieve fame, at least not in the sense that you would be well-known and recognized. Would you say that’s a fair assessment?
I already “blew up” in my mind. I been getting crowds of respect since high school so it’s a part of who I know I am, a part of my cool.
Is there anything left on your Hip-Hop bucket list that you would still like to cross off, dream collaborations and shows, or anything like that?
Dilla, I just gotta say his name, cause he would’ve topped that list. DJ Premier and Prince Paul, G.
And what’s next for you? You’ve already got two releases under your belt this year, so you going to take a rest now, or are you already plotting the next move?
I got eight albums unreleased under my belt right now, working on two more. It don’t stop, it won’t stop, it can’t stop.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.
Detroit producer/MC Nolan the Ninja speaks to us about the influence of old school legends – Redman, Tribe and JAY-Z – on his distinctive style, how Knxledge inspires him and the way his hometown continues to shape his drive. Words by Madeleine Byrne.
The word nostalgic is often used in relation to your music and you’ve used it as well. This surprises me, because I don’t think your work has got a “nostalgic” sound or feel. What do you think about this?
You know I’m a huge fan of 90s culture, even 2000s culture. I was born in 1992, but a lot of my roots lie in that era, I am 26 so I don’t want to front like I’m a triple OG, I’m still fairly young, but I have appreciation for the new school, as well as the old. My music, I guess, shows the traditional edge, like, hey I like to dig records, you know what I’m saying? I make sure all this stays part of the music.
You said that JAY-Z’s Reasonable Doubt was a major influence on your record YEN from last year, can you expand on that?
Yeah, I mean not in a way like I want to do this album over, but the genesis and the way the whole campaign was set up for JAY-Z’s record, you know. You’re talking about a guy who was almost 30 years-old and hadn’t dropped his first album yet so that’s just really inspiring – that’s more the influence, showing that things take patience and take time. Just because it takes a while it doesn’t mean that it won’t happen, and then it may happen in a bigger way than you can imagine.
And the album is talking about the same things as me; it’s talking about when you’re young and all the things happening in the city where you live. It’s the same thing, a kid from around the way trying to rise up above his conditions, his current conditions.
You’ve mentioned that your favorite rappers are Nas, Black Thought, Redman and A Tribe Called Quest. Could you choose one, maybe one we wouldn’t expect and explain how he inspires you?
Ok, I’ll talk about Redman and his animated style. When I first started out my whole thing was to be fast. It was all about energy on the mic and on stage. Redman influenced me a lot, but I also love Black Thought for his delivery and how he puts stuff together. A Tribe Called Quest inspires me too, I’m influenced by the beats and the individual members of the group. And you’re also talking about a group that put J Dilla under their wing early, J Dilla is a real vital part when you come to talking about Detroit hip-hop and everything.
I listened to YEN again today and what appeals to me is the way you are so speedy, so energetic. Your style is really distinctive.
Well, it all started because I used to be the rapper who was not too loud and then one time in a cypher around my way when I was a teenager, I went up on the stage and then when it was my turn the guy said, “yo, you got to get louder, you got to be more lively.” So ever since then, when I jumped on the stage I tried to be loud – not loud – but to project.
Added to that is the idea of being a ninja, well ninjas are like trained assassins, you don’t see them coming so that’s how I feel my music resonates, you know, it really simmers and takes you from different angles, expressions when you’re talking about lyrics and beats. It’s just different, but it’s me at the same time. You can ask anybody that knows me. I’ve always been hip to the same things. It’s not me trying to do anything, it’s me being who I am.
That’d probably be the only way I’d link you in with the 90s sound and culture, all those characters that were in groups like A Tribe Called Quest or Wu-Tang …
Yeah, absolutely. I heard a lot of Wu-Tang comparisons you know people want to connect to the ninja side of it, martial arts, kung fu. Wu-Tang is another influence when I started making beats I was trying to be like RZA, Tribe, Q-Tip and J Dilla, I was looking to these guys cause they really know how to make jams. Those are influences, they taught me how to do things musically, for one, they told me to innovate, all those people changed the game in a major way. None of them were here for a minute then gone.
One of my favorite tracks of yours is the instrumental Elation. It’s the one song that has a nostalgic feel with the vocal sample at the top, using the classic early hip-hop refrain.
Yeah, it starts with the Common sample from I Used to Love H.E.R the .. “yes, yes, y’all and you don’t stop.” That track was on a tape that was my introduction to the whole underground scene. Fat Beats put it out on cassette and it sold out. Dart Adams and DJ Soko helped me do the digital release, that tape was called Lo-Fi Loops and it was me making dope music, something for a head nod, to do a homework edit.
When I make beats that’s my goal, I look at guys like J Dilla and Madlib and see how their beats are still being heard in 2018 and one of them has passed away. I want my beats to be like that, heard all over the world. I just want my beats out there. With that release back in 2015, I got my name out a little bit more, then I dropped my first LP eight months later.
Yeah, but crud literally means unclean, filthy, or dirt, we also use it to refer to marijuana, but crud literally means filth, and CRUD if you listen to it is dirty, not smooth … Dirty and unclean that’s all it is. But it does also mean weed, a lot of those beats I made when I was high, so it makes sense.
What kinds of words would you use to describe this release?
Raw, traditional, gritty, filthy, different, refreshing, honest … Don’t want to say addictive because we’re talking about music that simmers, but those words I’d use. I’m just doing me man, the main thing I’m concerned about with my music is authenticity, I’m not really concerned about playing political games. I just want to do what I want. I’m just happy where I am, I’m excelling and my people are excelling.
Which track would you pick as the one you feel close to?
There’s a few, but my favorite beat on there is probably going to be Crud,Luh and then Chef’s Rap that’s got Raekwon’s verse on John Blaze by Fat Joe. I just took out Rae’s verse.
Yeah, that’s something that interests me because a lot of the time on CRUD you have these extended samples from another rapper, Chef’s Rap is one example of this. Usually a producer takes a tiny snippet as a sample from another rapper’s track, here there are complete verses, but the tracks aren’t remixes. What’s happening here?
I tried not to overdo it, but I do like to remix records that I grew up with, I’m a fan of, but I’m not trying to recreate the song, just if there are ill moments. Raekwon is another MC I look up to in terms of lyrics, I loved his verse on John Blaze. It was real ill, so I just put it together. It’s trial and error, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I trust my instincts and if it comes out fresh, it’s cool.
This is something Knxledge does too. I saw that DJ Soko said you’re inspired by Knxledge, is that still true?
Absolutely, he is like the current person I look up to, I really admire his work. I love what he does with Anderson .Paak, but there are a lot of producers around now, Tuamie is a dope producer. I love his work, same with Knx, Dibia$e, ovrkast and more. Then there are the triple OGs that you have to give respect to like Pete Rock, or DJ Premier… It really depends what you want to look at, but yeah I’m heavily inspired by Knxledge just the way he moves. I met him once, Earl Sweatshirt had a show at a festival in Detroit, Knxledge was off in the shadows and I had a chance to chop it up with him. I’m the same way, I’m not like “hey look at me” I just want to work; that’s the vibe he gives me. I feel like Knxledge gets it, the introverted nature of the art, you put yourself in the work rather than being political with everybody.
The track Sleigh on CRUD is a stand out for me. You’ve talked about the dirtiness of the album, but like any great hip-hop song it’s got the high and low end, there are the bell sounds, can you talk through the process of creating that track?
All of the stuff I used on that came from records, I literally got everything from wax. I made that beat a couple of years ago, but I knew that when I was making another beat tape it’d be on there, it’s real dope. I think it was a Tom Browne sample, I probably started with the drums first and built the beat around it, a lot of times it’s the other way around it. I just added the extra horns, I think the horns were from a Fugees record.
Thinking about YEN now, it’s such a Detroit record, with all the well-known Detroit MCs (Royce Da 5’9, Denmark Vessey, Quelle Chris) and Black Milk doing some production on it. How does it fit into the so-called “Detroit sound”?
Well, it’s very hip-hop oriented with traditional standards. Following people like Black Milk, J Dilla, Royce da 5’9 that’s probably where I fit in. In that sense, absolutely it’s a very Detroit record, every shop I’ve been in in Detroit stocks it which is dope because that’s never happened for me before, at least not with my release before it. But I also tried to branch out and connect with others, you know you see how Blu is also on the album: I try not to keep it too Detroit because I still want to touch other places.
As for the sound it’s just very rugged, very gritty, just really hard, cause you’ve got to look at Detroit, the city where we come from. It’s not sunshine and palm trees like on the West Coast, nor is it known for all this famous stuff like New York.
The community of MCs here, it’s like we’re for the opportunity, we just go hard, we’re non-stop hustlers making anything happen, we don’t give a fuck. Thinking of someone who shows both sides and is from Detroit, I’d say someone like Danny Brown. I like the way he maintains his originality and who he is as a person with where he comes from.
But until we get businesses down-own, until in Detroit we get the same offices or resources as New York or L.A. we have to hustle three times harder from jump, but nobody’s complaining about it, you know. I enjoy the challenge. Having to do more makes it all more worth it in the end, cause you know nothing was handed to you.
***
CRUD and $UD$ are out now. Buy from Nolan The Ninja’s Bandcamp.
Paris-based journalist Madeleine Byrne writes on music and politics for her site, http://madeleinebyrne.com. Her reviews, interviews, articles and essays have appeared in Passion of the Weiss, The Wire, Okayplayer and Ambrosia For Heads. Follow Madeleine on Twitter here.
DJ Skizz has built a solid catalog of production credits over the last few years, dropping high-profile remixes, solo albums and collaboration projects with the most respected emcees in the game. We recently spoke to the beatmaker about some of his best work.
Your catalog includes collaborations where you are the sole producer (Cashmere Dice with Da Villins, Billy Ocean with Big Twins). Do you approach these differently to projects where you are one of several producers? And are these projects more personal?
As far as the approach, it was really no different than other projects in that I wanted to give it a particular feel, sonically, and make the collection of songs fit together in a dope way. The Villins record was on some groovy, slick, “cashmere” vibes that fit Rim and Villin P’s rhyme styles, whereas Billy Ocean was on some 80s yacht rock, queens pimp shit and worked as a contrast to Twins gruff voice.
When I am the sole producer, I do feel more of a responsibility to “produce,” rather than just contribute beats. I always try to provide the artists and listeners with the filthiest beats I can make, but I find that it’s also important to deliver tracks that allow for the MCs to shine. Sometimes “the craziest” beat might not work for a particular artist or project. It’s got to make sense in the wider lens on the record. But yeah, as the sole producer, I can really dictate the sound of a record. And that’s not just with the beats, its with the sequencing, skits, interludes, etc. as well.
The Way We Were by Milano Constantine was one of 2017’s best albums in my opinion. It has beats only by you and Marco Polo, sometimes alternating from one track to the next. Did you and Marco Polo compete a little to see who could bring the most heat?
Thank you! And I agree. I think as Hip-Hop producers we are always competing. We come from that school of Hip-Hop. Whether it’s competition with other producers or just competition within ourselves to inspire and create better and better music…Marco and I have been great friends for a long time and I have huge respect for his craft. He definitely helps inspire me to make beats and he definitely inspired ‘Lano to write some filthy bars!
Cruise Control from 2016 was another great album, and personally I think it was criminally slept-on. Is it frustrating to put a lot of work into something that may not get heard by as many as you’d like?
It can be frustrating, but for me it’s about my legacy as a producer. If someone doesn’t hear the record now, they might hear it in 5, 10, or 50 years and appreciate it then. In today’s climate, music seems to be here one day and gone the next with it’s popularity built on social media hype etc., but my goal has always been to create pieces of art that last and that age well. As an indie artist, with limited financial resources, it’s challenging to truly compete in a business with artists who are helped by large corporations. In our case, the sharing of the music has to be completely organic with help from the fans and supporters, rather than just paying to play.
What I like about that album is the variety. It feels like beats were tailored to the emcee: a sparse, minimalist track for Bosses with Roc Marciano and Conway; headnod shit for Evidence on Geppetto; space for Your Old Droog to spit dense rhymes on Listen To Jazz. Do you often make beats with specific rappers in mind?
Sometimes I make beats with specific rappers in mind, but usually it’s just how I’m feeling on a particular day. Many producers have “a sound” and I’m not sure I have a particular sound. Sometimes my beats are hard, stab you in the trachea type beats and others are more groove/melody driven. I think having the ability and willingness to try different things and create different sounding beats allows me to work with different artists and also allows me to create different projects that are dope but that sound nothing alike.
What’s your actual process when you sit down to make music? Are you able to turn on the creative juice whenever its needed, or do you need to be in a certain mood?
Since producing is part of how I earn money, sometimes I feel pressure to turn on creative juices at any given moment. I think I make the best shit when I’m not forcing it though. Also I seem to get into a groove when I’m in the studio with an MC or someone who is inspiring me. The vibes can set the tone and the beat is just a bi-product of that vibe.
I know a lot of producers don’t like to give up their formula, but I’m interested in the gear you use. What’s your basic equipment set-up and some essential bits of hardware and software?
My setup consists of either an MPC 2000, MPC 2500, or MPC Studio, an Akai keyboard, ProTools, Serato, 2 turntables, a mixer, and vinyl records. I have also been using Kontakt from Native Instruments and a few other Virtual instruments to make sample-free beats and to manipulate and add on to samples.
You’ve worked with a huge selection of artists already, but who is on your ultimate wish list?
Kendrick Lamar, Cam’ron, Jay-Z, Redman, Anderson Paak, SiR, Sade, Ghostface, Dr. Dre, Nas, to name a few.
Aside from the obvious masters of the art, which other producers are you feeling the most right now?
Can’t think of anyone in particular at moment. I will get back to you on this…
What’s next on the horizon?
I’ve been putting together an instrumental project that should be ready for release this spring. Also working on a few EPs with rappers that I’m not gonna speak on just yet. Also got some placements on some big projects that shat should be coming out soon… But yeah just know I’m cookin and there will be plenty of Skizz work out there in the near future!
Few other groups epitomized the sound of the mid-late 90s underground Hip-Hop golden age better than the Juggaknots. Originally consisting of brothers Breeze Brewin and Buddy Slim (now aka Kev Fevr), they released the classic Clear Blue Skies in 1996, before later adding their sister to the line-up, Queen Herawin. In this exclusive interview, Gingerslim spoke to all three groups members about their impact on the scene, their jobs as school teachers, life since Clear Blue Skies and a lot more.
[The following has been lightly edited for length and clarity].
You’re all siblings and you all ended up making music together, so was it a very musical household you grew up in? What are your earliest memories of music?
[Buddy Slim]: Memories in music, hmmmmm. Being raised in a strict Caribbean household with both of our parents coming to New York in the 60’s from Jamaica and Trinidad respectfully, the only music you might hear is an occasional reggae or calypso classic, but what you probably didn’t hear was enough practice from our piano lessons that quickly dissipated when dad felt we were not practicing enough and shut down our lessons.
Once upon a time, I was practicing my DJ abilities, of course after finishing my homework, and one of our father’s favorite lines was, “you don’t have any extra work?” So of course I answered, “yes sir, homework and extra work has been done hence the reason I’m practicing my DJ set.” My father then proceeded to throw my whole DJ set on the floor and said; “MORE schoolwork!!!”
[Queen Herawin]: My earliest memories of music growing up were definitely Caribbean based as well, although there were certain specific songs that stuck out from other genres too. I remember dancing in the living room with my mother to Stealing Love by Carlene Davis. This song is still one of my favorites, probably because of the connection to my mother and the warm memory it possesses. My father’s sound was soca music, however, other specific artists he often played remind me of him as well…like Grover Washington Jr., Etta James, Dinah Washington or Lionel Richie.
My love of Hip-Hop happened in Elementary School. It happened living in the Bronx. It happened watching Video Music Box and when I fell in love with MC Lyte, Slick Rick, Special Ed, Jungle Brothers, De La, Queen Latifah, Boogie Down Productions and so on and so on. I matured into Hip-Hop through my brothers, listening to the Clear Blue Skies album, going to studio sessions they would take me to, seeing it become real…the process of it. The combination of this experience, fan, and voyeur, made me want to be part of it and be really good at it.
It’s been over 10 years since we last had an album from you guys. Is that the last we will hear from you as a crew? Are you ever tempted to come back for one more?
[Buddy Slim]: Yes sir, in the immortal words of KRS-ONE; “We’re not done.” After our last full-length studio album, Use Your Confusion, we decided to have all members devote time to their individual solo efforts. We dropped Queen Herawin’s solo debut, Metamorphosis, off our Matic Entertainment label in 2015, and we are now preparing for two Brewin solo efforts. One being a collection of Brewin’s scattered efforts in the form of an EP, then his full-length solo to follow. A compilation consisting of artists from the Matic camp and a reggae project from Kev Fevr aka Buddy Slim. As for the JuGgs, after we get those ideas out, we plan to start plotting the next Juggaknots offering, God spare the life!!!!
[Queen Herawin]: I certainly would love to do another album with my brothers! As Kev mentioned, we’ve been working more on solo work and collaborative projects, however, there is always a special synergy of working on a Juggaknots project that represents us as a whole. I’m curious and excited about the idea of what that would sound like. I think it could be the best one yet! The foundational album, the first, was a hands-down classic! I’m a major fan of that album, not only because they are my brothers, but because the music was amazing! Stepping away from something for an extended period of time creates an opportunity to share something truly unique when you return.
What made you guys decide to quieten down after Use Your Confusion?
[Buddy Slim]: During the recording process with UYC, things got a lil toxic. We had been trying to break that ceiling for almost 15 years and we felt as a team and as a family that it would be best for each member to follow their own individual voice. Even though we are family, any relationship demands compromise and we were not compromising but the hiatus has kept us busy and allowed time for us to heal, recharge, and refocus. Our label, Matic Entertainment, always keeps us busy, discovering and developing talent, making tracks/songs for that talent and also trying to get better as entrepreneurs to run a more efficient successful endeavor for ourselves, fans, and our roster. We also spend a significant amount of time running, tweaking, upgrading and improving our lab, BBS (BronxBullyStudios), BX, NY.
[Queen Herawin]: For me, life happened. My daughter was born that same year. Motherhood became my focus. Music was and will always be there, however, I was expanding in other ways as well, ways that needed my time, energy, love, commitment, and creativity. That experience provided creative direction and ammunition for my next project, Metamorphosis.
What have you been up to since Use Your Confusion was released? I understand you gravitated towards teaching?
[Buddy Slim]: Yes, we are all still teaching; myself and Brewin are still servicing the Bronx (ironically in the same North East Bronx neighborhood where we grew up) community and Herawin took her talents to Chicago.
I remember seeing Breeze on the Adult Rappers documentary talking about how he tried to keep his rap career secret when he started teaching, but I would have thought it would have been a good way of connecting with the kids?[Breeze Brewin]: We are educators. The first way we teach is socially. I love this art form, but I’ve been teaching children of color in neighborhoods very similar to where we grew up for 14 years. I am in no way embarrassed or regret earlier artistic work. However, my mouth was a little reckless in a good way at the time. I didn’t care; unadulterated. With that, some of the things that were said, I can’t see me saying now, especially knowing we live in a society where people can be critical utilizing specifics that serve their purpose and/or narrative.
Lines are taken out of context to sell a story and make mcs with public service livelihoods the bad guys. I saw it with Brownsville Ka. I could see it with us, as educators. So I’m a bit cautious. I haven’t even used the N-word recently. However, that only makes it more challenging. One of my idols, Rakim, rarely used any obscenities and was as hard as anyone in the game. So I have rhymed in front of the kids, but I’m careful with my word and topic choice. It was actually in an elective class on rhyming. I was trying to school them.
When you guys first formed it was an exciting time for rap and you were on the frontline of that whole underground movement. Did you have a sense at the time of how special what you were doing was, or is that something that has come with hindsight?
[Buddy Slim]: It was an interesting time, at one time ourselves and Company Flow were recording at the same studio in the city. I remember that time Co-Flo had finished up their debut effort and it was just Juggs and Flo in our own private listening party at the studio. We also performed together a lot back then. I remember our first show together was pretty crazy; we performed Clear Blue Skies wearing masks of old presidents, and Co-Flo was ill. Brewin was really the one who first connected with El-P and them, so for a lot of us in the cru it was our first exposure to the Co-Flo experience and them joints had us bent.
[Queen Herawin]: For me, I was just becoming part of that scene. Kev and Breeze were really at the forefront of the underground movement as foundational artists who helped set that wheel in motion. I became more of the experience through the Lyricist Lounge Volume One compilation on the song Weight. I didn’t realize how important and influential that song would be for my career and consequently add to my weight as a Juggaknots member, solidifying my role as part of the group and giving me needed exposure, experience and performance opportunities to enhance my craft and be better. As far as looking back, it shocks me at how many retrospective projects have been made, honoring underground Hip-Hop, yet neglecting to note Juggaknots as part of that foundational experience.
It’s always been interesting to me – maybe cos I’m a frustrated rapper at heart – that there are artists as talented as yourselves, who don’t have a constant urge to make music and put those skills to use. Was there a point when you thought the focus of your careers would always be Hip-Hop, or did you always see it coming to an end sooner than that?
[Buddy Slim]: We never stopped but life sometimes dictates direction. We had kids early and in the industry, money comes in ebbs and flows. When it’s good it’s really good but when it’s bad it’s real bad. So we had to reassess how we were going to incorporate life and the dream. Simultaneously.
[Queen Herawin]: The urge is always there. Whether it’s silently whispering in your ear for attention, or screaming at the top of its lungs to be heard. It’s in the fabric of who we are. We were artists before educators or perhaps educating through the music before we were doing it in the classroom. As Kev mentioned, so eloquently I must add, “life sometimes dictates direction” and juggling both hasn’t been easy, but our love for music has kept the flame lit, just maybe not the lights on. Teaching has provided that. We still persist to be who we are, and if and when that direction shifts, allowing us to provide for our families through the music solely, the creative balancing act may be one that we do until we no longer have to.
[Breeze Brewin]: I love this art form. I would love for this to be the only means of supporting myself and family. However, I needed to hit a certain level of income for my family to be comfortable. For a while, the music provided for that. When it didn’t, or I didn’t (who knows what drives what) I couldn’t see my family involuntarily joining the ranks of the starving artists. My son and daughter never asked for any of that. That being said, I have nothing but respect for the artists that took a chance and banked on the dream more exclusively.
I remember Pumpkinhead (RIP) was always talking about that ‘GRUSTLE’ (grind and hustle). He always had something on the burner and was able to make it work. John Robinson’s another perpetual professional creator. That dude always juggled hustles in a way that seemed effortless. I know it took a lot of effort. I can only celebrate and admire those that made it happen, as a full-time artist. When times got tough, I couldn’t. There were some other issues that made it necessary to keep a more traditional 9-5 type gig. Lucky for me, my job as an educator is very inspiring. It keeps me close enough to the young people of my community and often gives me ideas for music. The same way I wanted to make music to impact people. I impact through educating.
The balance seems to be finally tipping in terms of artists needing a major label behind them to put an album out. Do you think it will make the industry evolve for the better, or will labels always find a way to exploit new talent?
[Buddy Slim]: Labels will always exploit, that’s the nature of the beast, but times are changing. It seems that Hip-Hop is coming full circle, it’s about to be like back in the day with small independent labels like when Prism, Sleeping Bag, and Warlock were the go-tos. Hence the reason why we have been in business as a Hip-Hop label (Matic Entertainment) for the past ten years. We hope to relive those glory days and hopefully be more of a player in the independent Hip-Hop label scene.
[Queen Herawin]: The freedom that any artist has to put out music is bittersweet. It allows of course for full creative range, but it also allows, therefore…for FULL CREATIVE RANGE!!! There is so much music that is being called music, that doesn’t exactly sound like music [laughs], But it sells, it gets views, like millions and millions. Music as a craft has tipped the scales there as a result of this freedom, like giving kids a bunch of markers and saying…ok, you can do whatever you want on the wall. Some will just scribble, while others will create actual pictures and thoughtful images that represent art.
Juggaknots have been a very influential group for a lot of the artists who have come up after you. Do you pay much attention to the current generation? And if you do, do you have any favorites, anyone who you think will leave a real mark for the next generations?
[Buddy Slim]: We have a lot of favorites we feeling out here, right now we been vibing a lot to Axel Leon outta the South Bronx. He is a beast but what can we say we bias to the BX.
[Queen Herawin]: I can be stuck in my old ways of loving what I love and what inspires me, even if it is in the past or from artists who have been creating amazing music. From this generation, it’s more their energy I’m in awe of [laughs]. I would love to work like that! Non-stop. But again, quality over quantity. But quantity sparks momentum. I heard 16 Shots by Stefflon Don and thought it was dope. The beat is crazy, but it was the fusion between the Hip-Hop sound and Dancehall that got me. It kind of reminded me of Lady Saw’s 99 Ways; her tone and the tone of the song had a similar vibe to me. I liked the fusion and definitely was rockin it in the car. It must be our Jamaican roots as well, mixed with the Hip-Hop foundation.
What’s next for you all?
[Buddy Slim]: Dropping these Brewin solo efforts, a Queen Herawin EP is in the works, the Fevr compilation/Reggae project. Plus as always, discovering/signing new talent and keeping up with the craft. We are also expanding into literary works, app designs and film.
***
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.
Today we premiere the latest single from the upcoming album by producer BP and Queensbridge icon Tragedy Khadafi, Immortal Titans. Mastermind also features guest raps from Apathy, and cuts by DJ Stitches. Listen below, then read on for exclusive interviews with BP, Tragedy and Apathy.
Today we’re premiering new music by Vanderslice, from the upcoming project, The Best Album Money Can Buy. Following on from the recent 
Omar ‘O.C.’ Credle needs little introduction, having built an incredible catalog of music since the early 90s, both as a solo artist and as part of the mighty Diggin’ In The Crates crew. 
Blu is constantly releasing new music, but 2018 has been a particularly busy time for the prolific LA emcee and producer. Fresh off the release of 
