The iconic Fat Beats is currently celebrating 25 years in the hip-hop industry. As a retail outlet, label and distributor, the company has supported some of the finest independent music over the last quarter of a century, helping many of rap music’s biggest artists along the way. In the first of our series of features marking this epic milestone we speak to DJ Eclipse, who has worked for and been associated with Fat Beats since the beginning, ahead of this weekend’s Fat Beats 25 Anniversary show in Los Angeles.
It seems like everyone came through the doors of Fat Beats at some point in their career, from ‘90s veterans and indy rap icons all the way to Eminem and Kanye West. Give us some of your personal highlights from the in-store appearances and freestyle sessions you were there for?
One thing you have to understand about our scene is that maaaaaaaad people were nice! Obviously some better than others, but on a whole there were so many talented people that came through Fat Beats or just the indie movement that was happening in NYC in the ‘90s. Nine times out of ten who “made it” was less based on the individual’s talent and more based on the break they caught. If you would have asked me if I thought Kanye would have become as big as he is now based on his Fat Beats appearance I would have said my money is on Al Tariq or Black Attack (who Ye came with). There were too many people that were dope during that era.
Some of the best sessions at the store were when fellow emcees came to hang out with people that worked there (like ILL BILL or Q-Unique). At any given time a cipher might start up with Bill, Q, El-P, Last Emperor, A.L. Skills, Breeze Brewin, etc. A lot of the Rawkus’ artists had great in-stores like Shabaam, Kweli and L-Fudge. Other dope ones were KRS-One (who basically gave an on-the-spot lecture to the crowd for the whole time he was there), RZA, Psycho Realm, Mix Master Mike & Non Phixion, Immortal Technique…..but the biggest in-stores we ever had were Gang Starr (twice) and Eminem. Lines for them were down the block and around the corner.
Being part of a place that gave so many talented artists a platform, is there a particular emcee who blew up thanks to Fat Beats that you are most proud of?
“Blew Up” is a hard word to use because although most probably didn’t reach Eminem’s status many have made careers out of music. And I don’t think Fat Beats can take any credit solely for anyone’s success, but Fat Beats definitely played a part in helping artists like El-P, A-Trak, Black Milk, Dave One (Chromeo) and ILL BILL just to name a few. But more importantly than even helping one person was the field that we created for everyone to play on. During that time everyone was still itching to get a major label deal. We started stepping to artists and telling them stop waiting to get signed. Let’s press up your record and distribute it. The profit splits for artists automatically became a whole lot better. We weren’t trying to own the music. That stayed with the artist. We turned all this energy into a movement and with the help of the artists and people like Stretch & Bobbito who were playing the music it took off.
On the flipside of that, are their any emcees or producers stocked at Fat Beats that you were surprised didn’t blow up?
Definitely felt like Last Emperor and Natural Elements should have gone further. They were and ARE so dope, and at that time they had a lot of people checking for them. Emp got signed to Aftermath and we were all rooting for him. But once Dre picked up Eminem I think Em became Dre’s focus and other signees were left on the shelf. NE went to Tommy Boy who were trying their hand at picking up indie artists, but just like Emp, NE’s album got shelved for whatever reason. But like I said, it’s not always the most talented that move forward. Sometimes the universe has it’s own plans.
Music aside, Fat Beats definitely appealed to rap heads on an aesthetic level. The shop was basically everything you picture an independent hip-hop record store should look like: racks of 12”s, walls covered with signed record sleeves, posters and flyers, music pounding over the system, and staff who really know their shit. Were you guys conscious from early on that people would see it as way more than just a record shop, and as such was it something you tried hard to capture?
Well the vision Joe had from the start was to build a home for Hip-Hop heads to come shop. As far as how it all came together I think that was more organic and just part of our own personal makeup. We were all DJs or MCs or B-Boys. We all collected stickers, posters, vinyl, etc so when you walked into a Fat Beats store you were literally seeing our stash on the walls (in the beginning). And as the store started getting more of that stuff more went up on the walls and ceiling. The first Fat Beats location was basically like a DJs bedroom set up. Except there was vinyl for sale on the walls. And the floors. And anywhere else we needed to stock it to fit.
One Fat Beats story I’ve always loved is the ones about Percee P, there on the sidewalk selling tapes outside of the store. It was dope how that situation ended up giving his career a second wind. I’m curious about how you guys felt about his consistent presence right outside the store?
I love Percee, but never liked him or anyone else selling music in front of the store. I’d always tell all of them go down the block to the corner or even just move to the sidewalk by the curb. Standing directly in front of our door turned so many people away from coming into Fat Beats towards the end. It wasn’t just a digital revolution that killed Fat Beats it was the numerous “artists” that basically harassed people coming in and out of the store to get them to buy something from them. I had people tell me that they would cross the street to walk past Fat Beats if headed in that direction just to not be bothered by them.
It feels as though Fat Beats caught a moment in time that we’ll probably never see again. Downloading and streaming happened and record shops died. There’s a resurgence for sure, but pop-up shops and a lot of these new stores seem too clinical and gentrified, and the even the records are often just overpriced re-issues. Do you think we’ll ever see something like the original Fat Beats again?
Nah, that era is gone. The brand lives on to deliver the goods to the people via fatbeats.com and Fat Beats Distribution, but the era of physically going out to a store and hanging out and networking is a lost pastime. You have to remember we were in our 20s then. This was pre-internet. You HAD to do all this stuff. You had to go to a store to buy music. You had to go to an event to see/hear the music you were into. You had to go see your friends to catch up with them. Our generation is too old now to have the free time (or money) to do the things we did then and the younger generation is coming up with access to everything at their fingertips so they don’t have the need or want for that same experience we lived.
Lastly, tell us your top five 12”s that Fat Beats have distributed over the last 25 years.
Big L – “Ebonics”
Missin’ Linx – “M.I.A.”
Mos Def – “Universal Magnetic”
D.I.T.C. – “Day One”
Bumpy Knuckles – “A Part Of My Life”
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The Los Angeles Fat Beats 25th Anniversary show takes place this Saturday (August 10) at The Regent Theater, featuring Dilated Peoples, Elzhi, Tha Alkaholiks, Blu & Exile, J. Rocc and many more. Get tickets and find out more here. Follow DJ Eclipse and Fat Beats on Twitter here and here, and Instagram here and here. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
It’s been another stellar month for quality new hip-hop. July’s highlights playlist includes joints from Kook Keith, DJ Muggs and Crimeapple, Westside Gunn, Ras Kass, Ice-T, Ill Bill, DJ Shadow and De La Soul, Blueprint and many more.
Listen to the playlist below, and then go support the artists with a purchase from wherever you buy your music. Check us on Spotify for more curated playlists.
One of the most respected DJs and producers in hip-hop, Rhettmatic has been a fixture of the L.A. scene for decades through his solo work, as part of the Visionaries collective and as a member of the Beat Junkies. He recently talked to Matt Horowitz about projects new and old, production technique, touring with Dilla and more.
Following your 2011 collaborative mixtape/remix album/live EP, Bobo meets Rhettmatic, what’s next for your group, Cypress Junkies with Eric Bobo?
It’s been a hot minute since Bobo and myself have had a chance to work on new material. The last joint production we did together was for Rakaa’s (of Dilated Peoples) solo album, Crown Of Thorns, called “Rosetta Stone Groove” featuring Noelle Scaggs of Fitz & The Tantrums. We also toured Europe a few years ago but Bobo has been really busy with Cypress Hill since their new album dropped and has been touring mad crazy. But we’ve been talking still about doing some new music and getting back on the road, doing some spot dates in the near future.
How did yourself and Bobo initially meet and decide to form Cypress Junkies?
I met Bobo along with B-Real in the late 90’s when I was one of the DJ’s spinning on their Soul Assassins Radio Show at a local radio station in LA called 92.3 The Beat. Babu & Melo-D were also the other Dj’s; we would do their mixes live in between guests and comedy skits. This is around the time of the Cypress Hill IV album days. If you don’t know the history of Bobo, he is the son of the legendary Latin percussionist, Willie Bobo. He also used to play for the Beastie Boys (he even had a song named after him, “Bobo On the Corner” on Ill Communication before he became the 4th official member of Cypress Hill), as well as doing production for Psycho Realm. Anyways, he was working on a solo album called “Meeting Of The Minds” and he always wanted to do a DJ/percussionist song. We’d become friends already because of my stint on the Soul Assassins Radio Show, but I was honored he asked me. The song was called “Bobo Meets Rhettmatic”. When we performed the song at his release party, we realized that we might have something here. Then we were asked to perform for a benefit show in Los Angeles, and ended up being the headliner. We restructured our show to be more of a live element with more emphasis on the synergy between a DJ and a percussionist, and as we performed, we were really surprised by the response we got. Hence, “Bobo Meets Rhettmatic” was born; which eventually changed to Cypress Junkies (Cypress Hill/Beat Junkies affiliation). It was a big honor with B-Real giving us the official blessing.
I’ve heard rumblings a new Visionaries album is currently in the early stages of creation, correct? What can you potentially tell us about your upcoming return?
Yes, the Visionaries are working on a new album. It’s been 13 years since our last album “We Are The Ones”, which dropped in 2006. A lot of our core fans have been asking us to make a new album but everyone got busy with their own individuals lives and music careers. Both Dannu & Key-Kool have families, LMNO has a couple of solo projects out along with having a new baby, as well as 2Mex & Zen having their own projects out. Plus 2Mex had his own health situation that he needed to take care of; he had one of his leg amputated because of diabetes a few years ago. Now he’s still moving forward with full force and living life. Me personally, I got really pretty busy with the Beat Junkies. The Visionaries have done shows here and there but we never really worked on a new group album just because whether we realized it or not, we needed a break as a group (or at least for me personally), even though we’re family.
As for the new album, we are tentatively calling it “Vintage”, as a return to our roots of just making music for fun and not overthinking things. The difference between this particular album and our other albums; I will be doing all of the production, where it used to be Key-Kool and myself being the chief producers and having our regular family of producers such as J.Rocc and Babu, to name a few. I like to think in the last 5-10 years that I’ve grown and improved as a producer compared to my past production. The guys always wanted to make a new album, but for me personally, I wasn’t really ready just because I was burnt out and wanted to expand more as a DJ, an artist, a producer, as well as a person. So to be transparent, the guys were really waiting on me to work on new material. Besides me growing as a human being, a DJ and a producer, a lot of family, friends, and even our heroes were passing away as well as dealing with our own situations separately. We were all getting older. In 2017/2018 is when we started working on new material and just learned how to record as a group again with no expectations, and have fun making music together. We’re almost finished….hopefully it will drop by the fall/winter of 2019, God willing. If not, at least some new music this year to set up the new album for the top of 2020.
In adittion to Cypress Junkies, Visionaries & Beat Junkies, you’re also, part of The Joint Chiefs with Frank Nitt (Frank n Dank.) What’s the current status of this project?
Frank is my brother! I met Frank n Dank at the Jaylib “McNasty Filth” video shoot. We’ve became real good friends during the time since I DJ’ed for Dilla in Europe for his last tour ever. It was really fun when we made the Joint Chiefs album; basically Frank just crashed at my crib for a whole week just to work on music. Each day, I would work on beats in one room while he was playing Nintendo in the other room, then when I finished with a beat, I would show it to him, he’d start writing then we would record. After the session, we would get “enhanced” while listening to the finished product, then go out to the clubs just to take a break, then we would repeat again the next day. We basically would record two songs a day. We’ve talked about doing a follow up but we both are busy with our own schedules. The last joint we did together is a song called “Classic” that I produced for his solo album Frankie Rothstein on Delicious Vinyl in 2015. Besides his own solo projects as well as the Yancey Boys and Frank n Dank albums, he’s currently in charge of the California chapter of the James Dewitt Yancey Foundation as well as still being an artist on Delicious Vinyl. We’ll definitely going to work on new music soon in the near future.
I’ve been releasing music for free on my Birthday (May 10th), whether an album or a mix, for the last 10 years as a way of saying thank you to everyone that has been following my DJ/producer career, and just as a way to promote my catalog and progress as an artist/DJ/producer. With Loops, Chops, Beats, & Vibes Vol. 2, I wanted to a little something different when I dropped this on my birthday this year. I wanted to actually treat it like an official album versus giving something away for free, so I actually sold the album instead and made an official music video for the project. I made a video to the joint called “West Coast Vibrations (An Ode To Souls)”, which is a flip of the original sample that was used on Souls Of Mischief’s 93 Til Infinity, hence the tribute to Souls Of Mischief. I even wanted to shoot the video in the same vibe or essence of 93 Til Infinity, except highlighting Los Angeles and some of the cities that make up Los Angeles County. The video was shot and edited by Dj Underkut of Open Format LA, and he did a great job! I was really surprised and honored by the response for both the album and the video – it really meant the world to me that people went out and supported this album. That was definitely a great birthday gift to me for turning 50, and it tells me that I’m still doing something right. So everyone that purchased this album, I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart!
How would you say your process, approach, sound, style, etc. for Loops, Chops, Beats, & Vibes Vol. 2 differs from that of 2018’s Loops, Chops, Beats, & Vibes Vol. 1?
The approach to Volume 2 in terms of how the production was done is a combination of how I made the beats on Volume 1, by doing a cut & paste style strictly using Pro Tools only and making beats on the Propellerhead Reason program like I did on my Rhett Got Beats album. When I made Volume 1, I originally wanted to challenge myself and go back to making beats on my MPC2000 but it wasn’t working; so when that wasn’t working, I tried to turn on my SP1200 machine, but that wasn’t working either. I didn’t want to make beats on Reason because that’s what I’m currently using right now, but I still wanted to challenge myself for the fuck of it. I decided to try make beats on Pro Tools by doing a lot of cut, paste, and layering. I went digging for records for a good month and just basically pick any record from the stash I bought, record it on Pro Tools and just basically start chopping away. It was more tedious but I had a lot of fun doing it. With Volume 2, I wanted to continue the tradition, but I also have been making beats on Reason that I really liked and I didn’t want to put them to the side; plus I was also on a time constraint. So I decided to put some of my Reason beats that I liked a lot (plus the Nipsey Hussle tribute track that I made last to finish up the album), made a few tracks with the same Pro Tools procedure, and arranged them together so I can beat my personal deadline. I’m very proud of the end product, if I do say so myself! [laughs].
I know you were J Dilla’s touring DJ for a string of shows through Europe with Frank n Dank and Phat Kat; happen to have any particularly memorable stories from your time spent on the road with Dilla?
When Dilla was still alive and living in LA, I always told him if he ever needs scratches from me, I got him. And we actually talked about doing some work together. He always had love for the Junkies, especially for J.Rocc. J.Rocc is the 3rd member of Jaylib so it makes sense that he was Dilla and Madlib’s DJ. Dilla had a real small circle of people that he would hang out with and trust in LA; I was very lucky to be considered to be part of that circle in his last years. Originally Dilla asked J to go out with him on tour to Europe, but he couldn’t make it because he was scheduled to go out on the road already with Madlib. When I got the call from Dilla that he wanted me to go out on the road with him, Frank n Dank and Phat Kat, I said let’s go. I hit up J to thank him for recommending me for the job, but J said he didn’t even say anything to him – that was all Dilla’s idea. I was shocked and honored. Around this time as well, I knew he was sick, but I didn’t know to what extent until we met at the airport. To tell you the truth, the whole tour was memorable to me because Dilla personally asked me to be his tour DJ, plus I was able to bond with him, Mama Yancey aka Ma Dukes (Dilla’s Mother), Frank N Dank, Phat Kat, and Dave New York (Dilla brought him along as well). We all didn’t know this was going to be Dilla’s last tour ever, but I think he already knew and he wanted to do it for the fans regardless of his health. I also think that this was his way of saying this is our chance to work together….I will never forget this experience for the rest of my life. Thank you, Dilla!
What’s the current status of your long-time crew, The World Famous Beat Junkies or any of its affiliated entities?
The Beat Junkies are still going strong. We celebrated our 20 Year Anniversary in 2012 by doing shows in Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco as well as in Europe and Japan. We were really surprised how many fans, young and old were still excited to see us perform and how much people are still checking for us even though we never stopped. Because of that, we decided to get serious in terms of building our own business by relaunching our merch such as shirts and hats, and launch the Beat Junkies Digital Record Pool (www.beatjunkies.com). From there, we were able to launch our very own radio station, Beat Junkie Radio in conjunction with Dash Radio, a free app that was designed and founded by Dj Skee (www.dashradio.com/beatjunkieradio). I actually have my own radio show on the station called “Soundcheck” that airs live every 2nd & 4th Tuesday. I’ve been lucky to have guests such as Diamond D, Agallah The Don, Blu & Exile, MED, Defari, as well as Dirty Diggs, Supreme Cerebral, & many more. When we celebrated our 25th Anniversary in 2017, we were figuring out what would be our next business venture. From there we started our own DJ school called the Beat Junkie Institute Of Sound in the City of Glendale, Ca. (www.beatjunkiesound.com). We’ve been open for 2 years now and the school has been slowly growing. If you asked us 5-10 years ago that we would have our own DJ school & become instructors, we would’ve looked at you crazy. In January 2018, we officially launched Beatjunkies.tv (www.beatjunkies.tv), our online DJ school, which is an extension of the Beat Junkie Institute Of Sound. Everything that we teach at our school, we also teach online; it’s for those who want to learn how to DJ from us, but either cannot make it to our school or live very far, or for those who want to learn at their own pace. We’re still working on other projects, either as a crew or as individuals, but by the grace of God, hopefully we can keep on going till the wheels fall off.
I’m personally a big fan of your 2016 release, Circa 2004: Blaccmatic with Aloe Blacc! Although, I’ve always been curious: how exactly did this collaboration come to be?
Thank you very much, that means a lot. As the title suggested, the Blaccmatic album was made in 2004. A lot of fans of Aloe Blacc, the singer, don’t know that he’s a talented MC as well, and is in a group called Emanon with producer extraordinaire Exile (Blu, Fashawn, King Choosey). Around this time, Aloe was branching out working on his own material while Exile was in the beginning stages of working with Blu. For myself, nobody knew me really as a producer except for my work with the Visionaries, and I wanted to expand and work with different artists. Aloe and myself talked about doing some work together and then finally he said “just give me a beat CD”. Then one day while I was working at Fat Beats LA, he stopped by and gave me a CD with “Aloe Blacc & Rhettmatic” written on top of it. When I got home to listen to it, I was blown away because he practically made a whole album of all the beats I gave him. One of the songs “Find A Way”, had someone singing, me not knowing that it was Aloe singing himself. When I asked him who was singing, he told me it was him….I was so blown away. Then right there, this was a star in the making. That particular song was supposed to be featured on his Stones Throw debut album Shine Through but didn’t make it, but it did make it on the B-Side of the “I’m Beautiful” 12″ single. On a side note: I also let my dear friend and producer extraordinaire Dj Khalil (Self Scientific, Aftermath) hear “Find A Way” and he immediately asked me who the artist was. He also bugged out when he found out who it was….”You mean, Aloe as in Aloe Blacc from Emanon?? I need to work with him!”. I was able to connect them both and then a couple of years later, they collaborated on a song you might’ve heard or seen on a Beats By Dre commercial called “I’m The Man”.
We never got to officially put the project out because eventually Aloe got signed to Stones Throw and I started working on the Visionaries’ We Are The Ones album. Over the years, we have talked about putting it out but then eventually, Aloe became the talented and respected singer that he is now. When I decided that I wanted to put it out, I asked Aloe permission first to see if he was down with the idea of releasing the project, he said yes, as long it was a free download. He still wanted people to hear our project. When I released the project in 2016, we had such a positive reaction. Fans of Aloe Blacc the MC were happy to hear an unreleased project with him spitting bars; fans of Aloe Blacc the soul singer, didn’t even know the history of Aloe as an emcee and were blown away. Really glad that people got to listen to this project and the positive feedback was the icing on the cake.
I know you’ve worked with everyone from Guilty Simpson to Ras Kass… but do you have any currently vaulted/unreleased collaborations you’re looking forward to the hip-hop-loving world hearing one day?
Who knows, that’s a good question. I do have some joints in the vault that I did with J-Ro of Tha Liks and Defari, K-Solo, an unreleased Key-Kool & Rhettmatic song & some other artists that I worked with in the early 2000’s that never came out officially. If my small core of fans really want to hear some old/unreleased material of mine, then I might put it out….or maybe redo it over. But I do know I have more work to do….
Matt Horowitz has been a hip-hop fan ever since he first heard Wu-Tang Clan’s Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) back in the mid-90’s, which positively or negatively changed his life ever since, depending on who you ask. He single-handedly runs online music publication The Witzard, and has been fortunate enough to interview Eothen ‘Egon’ Alapatt, Guilty Simpson, Ice-T and Mr. X, Dan Ubick, Career Crooks’ Zilla Rocca & Small Professor, Cut Chemist, and J-Zone, amongst countless others. He enjoys writing about and listening to hip-hop, Punk/Hardcore, and Indie Rock on vinyl with his lovely wife, while drinking craft beer, red wine, or iced coffee. To paraphrase both Darko The Super and the Beastie Boys: “Already Dead fans, they want more of this… I’m a Witzard like my man Matt Horowitz!”. Follow Matt here.
After we spoke to Da Buze Bruvaz emcee Him Lolast year, it was only natural we should follow up with an interview with the other half of the crew. Grown Up Rap caught up with Clever 1 to talk about his new project with producer Giallo Point, Kiss Da Converse.
I’ve heard you guys use the phrase ‘bully rap’ to describe your music. Can you elaborate more on exactly what that means?
What we describe as bully rap is self-explanatory. Rap is the Verbal element of hip-hop which is the voice for who’s behind the lyrics. As we have a takeover attitude towards the art in its pristine form, we stand adamant to do this how it was originally formulated with no questions asked. So whoever is offended by our approach can come see us personally.
Similar to your partner’s recent OJ GLOVEZ album, Kiss Da Converse is produced by the excellent Giallo Point. What makes you gravitate towards his beats in particular?
Giallo Point is by far one of the illest out there. Again, he has the beat version of bully rap to a science. Also, he sticks to the formula; hard crispy drum patterns and melodic sample techniques – pure hip-hop.
Other than Giallo’s production, tell me more about the new album, Kiss Da Converse?
Expect heavy wordplay, sketchy rhyme patterns, a glimpse of street activity presented aggressively. More importantly to spread the skills around. Me and Him Lo hold it down as a duo but try to show our listeners we can hold it down as solo artists as well.
Your music often has a theme running through it, giving it a cinematic feel. Does the new project have a running story or any specific aesthetic you are trying to capture?
We always try to give our projects their individual identity. Therefore our themes can consist of actual concepts or just the metaphorical. On this one it’s more a metaphor type of thing as far as theme. I felt the villain-like character of Sho Nuff is how I can describe the way things are delivered.
As Da Buze Bruvaz, it feels like you guys release music sporadically, when you feel like it, never under any pressure – an approach I have a lot of respect for. Having said that, you’ve recently put out a lot of new music in quick succession. Are these projects you’ve had done for a while and felt now is the time, or have you both actively been making more music recently?
We stay going in the stu. We definitely have catalogues of material in which we can easily hand pick from. However we always run into new beats and beats make us want to rhyme when they’re dope, so we will always be ready to drop something fresh for our listeners.
When I interviewed Him Lo last year I asked him about how he shuns social media. I get the sense that you dislike it even more than him. How do you feel about that whole world?
The social media world has its pros and cons. I keep something running just to monitor and keep up with what’s going on. If it was up to me I would have someone designated to promote and advertise via social networks. You just gotta be careful as there’s a lot of weird people on there.
You and Him Lo have been rapping since the 80s, and he mentioned how, back then, you were more serious about rhyming than he was. Describe the local scene in the 80s.
Growing up hip-hop was top priority. Of course you had sports and clothes but if you wasn’t hip-hoppin right you was wack. I actually started out breakin and graff’n but would write rhymes in between and discovered I wasn’t bad at it. Being younger, I guess it was more in amazement to hear the others in the squad spit a rhyme, so I started living up to it. Him Lo was more of the judge commentator, master of the mix tape. We all thought he would become a DJ more than anything but he always knew how to spit ‘em. He would give you one every now and then just to show u how it was done.
Is there more new music on the way soon?
Expect us to hit ‘em off with new material. We will definitely keep it coming and will always be on attack. Salute to all the pure hip-hopperz from the golden era and all the new cats who do it for the craft.
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Kiss Da Converse is out now. Purchase it here. Keep up with Clever 1 and Da Buze Bruvaz on Twitter via MarQ Spekt. Follow Giallo Point here. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
We brought you the premiere of the Eternal Ridin’ single last month, but today we are proud to introduce you to the whole album. Stream below, then keep scrolling for an interview with Libretto about the new project, working with Buscrates, Portland hip-hop, and the impact of Nipsey Hussle on the local community of Watts and beyond.
The new album Eternal Ridin’ is upon us. Tell us what we can expect?
You can expect soulful, raw, uncut, golden era, true rap music in its purest form of the hip-hop culture.
Your music has a very cohesive feel, with emcee and producer perfectly in sync, and a feeling of it having actually been recorded together, not done over emails. How do you guys tend to create together?
After hearing some of Buscrates beats via email, we actually had a chance to connect in person which made the a big impact on the vibe and feel of the album. Our connection to the same era of rap growing up helped out a lot too… We are both in the same age bracket and grew up to the same style of music…if I’m not mistaken.
You’ve had an interesting journey to get to this point in your career, from making hip-hop since the early aughts, to then having to put music aside to serve time in prison, to now. Do you feel like you’re in a good place?
Yeah, I feel like I’m in a “good place” in my life I guess. The stresses of life are very high in my life dealing with a few family members and a lot of friends still held captive behind enemy lines in this nation’s prison system. Creatively, I am in a great place…producing music, composing, staying inspired and creating timeless art.
You started out making music with Lifesavas, who were part of the whole Solesides/Quannum collective. Do you still have a connection with any artists from that circle?
Yes I do. I still create with Jumbo, Vursatyl (who is featured on our new album on a song called The Struggle) and Rev. Shines of the L.S. Crew… and I recently dropped a 12″ with Lyrics Born of Quannum Projects.
Lifesavas are from Portland, Oregon, which is where you are also now based. What’s the local hip-hop scene like there?
The scene here is thriving with new and young talent, as well as the vets who are still holding it down and pushing new boundaries in the culture as well.
That said, you are from Watts, and there’s always been a distinctly west coast sound to your music. Is that something innate inside you, regardless of where you are based now?
Absolutely! I was raised in L.A., Watts, and Compton areas my entire life before relocating to the PDX. And even when I relocated here, I never stopped going back home to check in and spend time in my projects and in my section. It keeps me grounded and is the foundation of my character.
I’d like to talk about Nipsey Hussle. With you coming from Watts, his death must have hit hard. What effect has it had on yourself and the community as a whole?
The passing of our beloved comrade Nipsey Hussle has had a huge impact on me and the community in L.A. Nipsey basically did what we all aspire to do coming from the slums. He made it out his ‘hood, but never left. If that make sense…haha. He bought property, employed people from his ‘hood and invested there as well. Nipsey’s connection to Watts starts when he was in Jr.High School when he was going to Marcum which is in Watts. Which is why you see him in Watts hanging out, chillin in my projects (Jordan Downs) and taking pics in front of the Watts Towers.
His life was inspiring to me as an artist and a businessman. His thoughts on business, investing and financial literacy is something that I acquired in Federal Prison. The music and art was the tool he used to take care of the business and that’s what I feel we should be doing as artist. The Marathon Continues… Long Live Nipsey Hussle, The Great!!
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Eternal Ridin’ is out now on Liquid Beat Records. Purchase it here. Follow Libretto and Buscrates on Twitter. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
Author Will Ashon recently published the excellent Chamber Music: Wu-Tang and America [In 36 Pieces]. We spoke to him about the journey of writing a work as masterful as this, his time as head of the iconic Big Dada Recordings, and of course, the Wu.
What’s fascinating is that the book is about the Wu-Tang Clan, but also isn’t. It uses Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) as a framework for what is essentially the history of black America. Did you always intend for the book to be so broad, or did it start out as more of a simple celebration of a classic album?
It was never going to be a simple celebration of a classic album because my brain doesn’t work that way. On the other hand, I’m not sure I intended for it to be as broad as it worked out! I think that hip hop is a connective music – it works by collaging together and, in the process, commenting on, other musics, ideas and stories, so any book on hip hop kind of has to do the same thing, too. I wanted it to be as wild and outward looking and baffling (and hopefully as exhilarating) as the album it was about.
Art can be interpreted in many ways, meaning different things to different people. Did you ever fear though that interpreting and attaching meaning to specific lyrics might sometimes come across as tenuous, trying to find something that isn’t there? You allude to this a few times in the book in the latter chapters, especially with Ghostface lyrics.
Haha! Nah, I didn’t worry about tenuousness. Ghostface’s lyrics, in particular, are so weird and impenetrable that they demand interpretation. And isn’t that what fans do? Try to figure out what their favourite rapper is saying and what it means? Overall, my philosophy when writing a book is that I’d rather be interesting than right, by which I mean I’d rather make readers think than just tell them stuff they already know and reinforce their already-held views. Lyric interpretation is part of this – if you think I’m wrong, that’s great. At least it means you’re engaging with those lyrics. And reading a book should be all about engagement, not being spoon-fed “FACTS.”
I also notice how you, wisely, avoid looking too deep into some of RZA’s philosophies and ideas from The Tao of Wu. Was it hard to avoid certain rabbit holes?
I love a good rabbit hole. Rather than avoid them, I prefer to jump in and dive so fast I blast right out the other side. As far as I can see, the whole book is in part an interpretation of RZA’s philosophies. But I don’t bother setting them all out exactly as they’re set out in The Tao of Wu because TheTao of Wu already exists for that. (Plus, I’m writing about a record released 20 years before The Tao of Wu).
Being a writer myself I know just how much research a work like this requires. How long did it take to write, and where did your research take you?
The book took me a year to research and write, flat out (plus my thirty years of listening to and thinking about hip hop more generally). That was much quicker than I would’ve liked, but I had an artificial deadline set by the upcoming 25th anniversary of the album’s release. As a result, I really went at it hard – forty hour weeks in the British Library, trying to get through and assimilate all the information I needed (and some that I didn’t). It’s the most intense period of work I’ve ever done on a book and it was pretty exhausting.
In terms of being taken somewhere, I also went and spent time trudging round Staten Island, getting a feel for the place – its atmosphere and geography. That was essential in all kinds of ways – I didn’t realise, for instance, that the spot where Eric Garner was killed by the police was so close to where the first Wu Wear store was located. These kind of connections are what animate the finished book.
Being white, and from the UK, I sometimes struggle to write about the history of black American music and culture, for fear of coming across as a phoney. I noticed that you seem conscious of this in the book too. Is it hard to write authentically about things you never actually experienced first hand?
I’m not too worried about authenticity – which, as I explore in the book, is a pretty loaded concept anyway. I think it’s more important to worry about being responsible in what I do. That means being clear and open about the perspective that I’m coming from and it means interrogating my own assumptions. It means, in effect, abandoning “objectivity” and instead focussing on love.
Having said that, I suppose being an outsider also allows you to provide a different perspective?
Yeah maybe – although it’s arguable that being an outsider to an outsider culture makes you a cultural insider at a broader level. To put it another way, you can’t use that as an excuse and you certainly can’t privilege your perspective over another. I think, once again, it’s best just to be honest about where you’re coming from and then it’s up to the reader to decide what they make of that. Nobody has to buy the book!
The response to the book had been very positive. But I’m curious to know if you’ve had any feedback from the Wu or those in their circle. Do you know if any of them are aware of the book?
No feedback, no. The publisher sent it to the management of a couple of the members but beyond that I have no idea.
I’d like to talk about Big Dada. You founded the label and ran it for several years. Tell me about that experience.
That’s a big question! It was fifteen years of my life (a little more, in fact), so it’s hard to sum that up in a few sentences. We tried to change the landscape for Black music in the UK and to some extent we achieved that and to some extent we failed. I’m really proud to have worked with all the artists I worked with, even when they hated me or my ideas (which they sometimes did). But running a record label is hard, unrelenting work, most of the time you don’t achieve what you hoped for, and eventually I was ground down by it. I wish I’d managed to make it more sustainable without me but I don’t regret stepping away.
What are some of the releases from your time there you are most proud of?
There are so, so many. Not sure it would be fair to the others to pick out a couple. Suffice to say, I’m really proud to have released albums by Roots Manuva, New Flesh, Gamma, Infesticons, TTC, Ty, MF Doom (King Geedorah), cLOUDDEAD, Wiley, Spank Rock, Infinite Livez, Lotek Hifi, Busdriver, Anti-Pop Consortium, Diplo, Speech Debelle, Offshore, Congo Natty etc etc, right up to the last two signings of ‘my’ era, Young Fathers and Kate Tempest.
Lastly, considering how their last few albums have been mediocre at best, what would the perfect Wu-Tang Clan comeback album look like in your eyes?
Ouch, that seems a bit harsh. In all honesty, I’d rather hear a debut album by a group I’d never come across before which had the same levels of energy, inventiveness, aggression, humour, originality, street smarts and vision as “36 Chambers.” THAT would be worth seeking out!
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Chamber Music: Wu-Tang and America [In 36 Pieces] is out now, published by Faber & Faber. Get it here. Those in the UK can purchase here, published by Granta under the slightly different title, Chamber Music: About the Wu-Tang [In 36 Pieces]. Follow Will Ashon on Twitter. Interview by Ben Pedroche.
Sa-Ra Creative Partners member Shafiq Husayn is back with a new album. Matt Horowitz recently spoke to him about The Loop, future music from Sa-Ra, his experience of working with some of the world’s most icon artists, and more.
About how long has The Loop been in-the-works? I remember seeing a video teaser entitled “Preview of the making of forthcoming Shafiq Husayn Album ‘The Loop’” as far back as 2012.
I started in 2010 and finished in 2014.
How exactly does working with Ice-T, Sa-Ra Creative Partners, The Coalition, White Boiz, etc. differ from writing and recording your solo work?
With Ice it was all new, my first production gig outside of my group the Nile Kings, who were also signed to Rhyme Syndicate/Sony at that time. I was producing with DJ Aladdin under the moniker SLJ of the Ammo Dump, so that’s where I learned how to produce with others and being in a group with others first. With myself there is a lot more freedom in decision making obviously but I still rely on my interaction with other creatives for inspiration and their input as well – it’s an exchange just like being in a group. But working by myself in the inception of the process is probably the most different part than working inside of a collective.
How would you personally say your sound, music, and style has grown and progressed between Shafiq En’ A-Free-Ka (2004) and The Loop?
I have learned more music theory in that time, the freedom and courage to go after certain elements (horns, strings, etc..) in the music probably is a lot more daring the first album and the intent going in was direct over all opposed to En’ A Free Ka, which was just a collection of songs I put together in three months just to let people know I was open for business as a solo artist and producer.
What’s the current status of Sa-Ra Creative Partners? I’ve noticed yourself, Om’Mas Keith and Taz Arnold have been largely inactive since 2009’s Nuclear Evolution: The Age of Love.
Sa-Ra is working on new music. I have a bonus song featuring them and Jon Bap on the North American The Loop vinyl release.
Are yourself and Krondon (Strong Arm Steady) planning on working on the follow-up to White Boiz’s Neighborhood Wonderful any time relatively soon?
Yes, indeed. He’s in town now getting concepts together for some joints and his film schedule is pretty hectic.
The Loop features a who’s-who of all-star musicians, players, and producers including Anderson.Paak, Erykah Badu, Bilal, Flying Lotus, Hiatus Kaiyote, Robert Glasper, Thundercat & Jimetta Rose. Now, might you happen to have any enjoyable in-studio stories?
Wow, so many… The Anderson Paak and Jimetta sessions are always fun, Bilal and Badu are super wavy too. I’m going with Thundercat one day watching Robot Chicken in the pillow room in the Sa-Ra house, and these characters and commentary was super funny and wonky and abstract, but we totally understood the whole thing. Maybe an hour later we made Dirty Beauty in the infamous Kitchen (for those who know, then you know how much of a hookup spot that was for a lot of music).
What type of life-long lessons did you learn from your years working alongside hip-hop luminaries Afrika Islam, Ice T, Lord Finesse, and King Tee?
Ice totally showed me the music business from a creative and hustler point of view. Afrika Islam showed me leadership and how to network a close crew of people all at once. Lord Finesse how to keep it funky and technology, and long rides from the BX to record stores in the city and just being a solid dude, #Respect. King Tee and DJ Pooh would put together cohesive albums with dope skits and keeping the concept throughout. He always had dope ideas from start to finish all ready to go and knew what he was looking for to fit into the concept. Super-Nigger is a great example of that ((look.. up, up in the sky)) ((it’s a bird, it’s a plane)).
Would you mind telling us a bit about the making-of your 2018 album, The Blueprint with Blu? Were you two ever in the same studio together during the album’s recording process?
Blu took instrumentals from various beat CDs I gave him years ago and then he recorded over them through his computer. So that’s all the input I had on that project.
Now that The Loop has been properly released into the world, what do yourself and Nature Sounds have planned for the album roll-out?
Plenty of vinyl with bonus songs, tapes, CDs, and even limited edition wax as well with unreleased music.
In addition to your multiple collaborations already released, what sort of collaborative efforts do you currently have in the works or waiting to be released?
I have just completed the Dove Society album entitled So Gold featuring Jimetta Rose, KarenBe, Anderson .Paak, Gyo Bunchy, Colin Devane, Sharis Rhodes, Bobby Earth and Didda Joe just to name a few, coming out through Nature Sounds later this year…look out for the 1st single Sofas coming this summer.
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The Loop is out now. Buy it digitally here, and order physical copies from Nature Sounds here. Follow Shafiq Husayn on Twitter.
Matt Horowitz has been a hip-hop fan ever since he first heard Wu-Tang Clan’s Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) back in the mid-90’s, which positively or negatively changed his life ever since, depending on who you ask. He single-handedly runs online music publication The Witzard, and has been fortunate enough to interview Eothen ‘Egon’ Alapatt, Guilty Simpson, Ice-T and Mr. X, Dan Ubick, Career Crooks’ Zilla Rocca & Small Professor, Cut Chemist, and J-Zone, amongst countless others. He enjoys writing about and listening to hip-hop, Punk/Hardcore, and Indie Rock on vinyl with his lovely wife, while drinking craft beer, red wine, or iced coffee. To paraphrase both Darko The Super and the Beastie Boys: “Already Dead fans, they want more of this… I’m a Witzard like my man Matt Horowitz!”. Follow Matt here.
You’ve teamed up with Oh No for this latest project. How did the collaboration come about initially?
When I first got signed to Sound In Color records back in 2005, I initially reached out to Oh No after seeing him battle Exile at the Rootdown, but I eventually decided to have Exile produce my first album which would become Below The Heavens. So me and Oh No have been contemplating putting out music together for a long time and this we felt was a perfect time to hit the people with a full length release from the both of us.
Is there much of a different dynamic working with someone of his calibre?
Oh No is fast bro, he has a very extensive arsenal of heat and he stays on top of his craft. So working with him is very easy for me because I tend to work fast as well.
As with a lot of your music, it’s a very LA-centric album. Is there any sort of concept beyond the obvious LA theme?
No, not really, it’s more so just writing from reality or experience. So growing up in L.A. and living daily in L.A. are obvious reasons why we create music from an L.A. point of view. “L.A. IS RED HOT”.
When we spoke last year you told me you were sitting on a crazy amount of albums and working on more new material. I was wondering if you always feel an internal desire to be creative? Do you always feel the need to be writing?
Not lately, now that I am sitting on so much material. I can kick back for once and not feel any pressures to write or create. I can for once just enjoy the music I have created.
Once again you’ve got a great selection of guests on the album, with a good mix of lesser known and more established artists. Do the names come to you as you’re writing the songs, or do you have an idea of who you want involved beforehand?
I know so many great artists, it’s really just overtime I meet an open artist who is ready and willing to create, we link up and actually create. As oppose to acting like you are willing to create and never really do. But when it comes to albums, I do try to carefully select my features, and that is a blessing.
You’ve already worked with some of the best names in hip-hop, including projects with both Oh No and Madlib. What’s next for you? Is there anyone else left on your wishlist?
Premier, and Pete Rock. Prince Paul. Fred Wreck. RZA. All kinds of people I would love to work with. On top of that list would have been J Dilla without a doubt.
Now religion isn’t something you ever really talk about in detail in your writing, but I always get the sense of some sort of spirituality in your mindset. Is there anything in particular you subscribe to in that respect?
My grandfather, who is very religious, always told me to write positive thoughts and not to project any negativity, and I try to do that in my music.
Do you spend much time listening to all the new hip-hop surfacing at the moment? If so do you have any particular favorites out there?
No, I listen to older 80s and 90s hip-hop. I tend to think it carries a lot more substance and it shares an experience long silenced and finally voiced by a people finally given a chance to express themselves, when before there weren’t any opportunities for so many people, all over the world.
I remember in an old interview you said you were getting more into reading and studying. Is that something that you’re still focused on and is there any area of study that you’re specifically drawn to?
I love history. I have actually just finished reading the Bible. The most intriguing book I have read in my life so far !
What’s next for Blu?
Releasing all these albums I am sitting on and hopefully getting into film somehow.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.
We speak to Diabolic about his upcoming new album with producer Vanderslice, Collusion, out later this month.
You and Vanderslice have been down for years but have never made an album together until now. What made you guys feel that the time was finally right?
I’ve known Matt Diamond at Coalmine Records for years as well – he does publicity for my other projects. He had mentioned the idea to me and it was a no brainer. I ran it by Slice and he was in so when Matt was ready to move forward with it, it was as natural as Roy Hobbs knocking the cover off of a baseball.
That said, your solo catalog is pretty small anyway considering how long you’ve been in the game. It that a strive to maintain quality over quantity, unlike a lot of artists who over-saturate by flooding the scene with too much music?
Yeah, that’s a big part of it. I always managed to maintain an allure of mystery through the years and it helped me build a solid fan base in a weird way while managing to stay busy. The other side of it was being trapped at Viper Records. That situation was way too stressful for my taste and it resulted in a lack of productivity for everyone on the label. After I left a few years ago, it was a learning process on how to release music on my own. Now I feel as though I have better grasp of it which is why fans will see three projects out of me in 2019.
The title Collusion has a political overtone at the moment (in fact, as I write this, its only a couple days since the Mueller report was filed, seemingly clearing the orange tyrant of any shady business with Russia). The album gets political at times. Care to speak on any of the issues covered?
Haha. The title came to fruition more because I’m a smart ass more than anything. I also figured it’s one of the most searched words on the internet at the moment so it would play well with the algorithms in this future world we’re currently living in. I understand people’s reasons for disliking the president, but I also knew from the start that the Russian Collusion story was complete nonsense so it’s a good way to mock it.
Your previous records were self-released on your own label, but Collusion is out through Coalmine Records. I’m interested to know what the advantages of being on a label are these days, in a world where releasing music is easier than ever.
I was on Viper Records for my first and part of my second albums (I left with my masters prior to releasing the second) and ended up releasing the second one on my own which went well while being a major pain in the ass. Matt and Coalmine Records is about the only label I’d work with based solely on his integrity and work ethic. We’re friends outside of it so breaking bread isn’t a problem and I know he’ll work twice as hard as anyone else including myself while not fucking me over monetarily. It allows me to release more while taking some of the weight off of my shoulders.
There’s some dope looking versions of the album dropping on wax. How important is it for to give fans a decent, collectible physical product?
Honestly, that’s all kind of new to me and something Matt’s been teaching me a lot about. Vinyl has sort of become like collecting baseball cards these days. It’s dope. In the future I’m definitely going to make it more of a focus.
Going back to Vanderslice, his beats are straight up, true-school Hip-Hop, which suit your emcee style nicely. How do you guys tend to work? What’s the process?
It tends to be harassing him for more beats about three minutes after he just sent me some [laughs]. It was a piece of cake and pretty natural. We’ve been friends for about 20 years so communication and trading ideas is nothing. He sent me stuff, I wrote to it pretty quickly, hit the lab, and then Scott Stallone out in Philly handled all of the mixes which were spot on first round, otherwise it was minor changes.
Now that you and Vanderslice have your first full-length collaboration in the bag, can we expect more from you guys together?
Yeah I’m sure we’ll reconnect for something. Whether it’s a whole LP or just doing music in general. And if it sells the way it could, we’d be stupid not to.
Lastly, tell us your favorite joint on the album, and why?
I like the single, Think of That, a lot. It was actually supposed to be an interlude beat and ended being the last track I did. I asked him to send me some shit for an interlude, he sent me that, I was like, “there’s no fucking way I can not rap to this sh*t.” There’s a few on there that I really like though, it’s tough to say. I’ll let the kids decide what I like the best for me.
