Industry – Page 6 – Grown Up Rap

Interview: Damu The Fudgemunk & Raw Poetic + Album Stream

Long-time collaborators Damu The Fudgemunk and Raw Poetic talk to us about their new album, The Reflecting Sea: Welcome to a New Philosophy, which includes the Master Plan single we premiered last week. They also discuss Redefinition Records, Panacea and more. Read on, stream the new album in full below, and watch the video for the single Think Back.
Tell me about the concept of The Reflecting Sea. It feels like an expansive album that aims to transcend hip-hop.
[Raw Poetic]: It’s a multi-layered facet. It’s sort of a life-based paradox hidden in one of the lines of the Freedom funk chant “The Sea Reflected, the Reflected Sea”, that is meant to question whether life (or tears) are falling up or down. Down toward the death of something (your past), or up toward the excitement of a new beginning. Its kind of like, life is a figure 8 that always meets in the middle, never beginning nor ending… I think I’m still working my way through this one.
[Damu The Fudgemunk]: We’re very proud of the album and what we were able to accomplish. We both started out with the intentions of making new music and providing an additional outlet for creativity. As long as we’ve worked together off and on there’s always been an existing chemistry that we’ve been curious to explore given the things we’ve done on our own and with others. I don’t think it was a conscious effort to transcend the genre. Though the final product may sound like we were looking beyond hip-hop, we identify as hip-hop artists. Honestly, we wanted to transcend ourselves which was very easy for us. It was a matter of embracing the “anything goes” philosophy and embracing all of our skillsets. The album we made was rooted in hip-hop influences, but we equally incorporated influences from other styles of music and the verdict gave us an album that has no dominant sound.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by describing the album as being a ‘New Philosophy’?
[Raw Poetic]: Yeah! Continuing from the last point, we’re in the process of welcoming you into a new philosophy. I think the new approach toward our self-expression is where we begin to look at our philosophies. I think when Damu and I talk, a lot of those conversations leave mental notes (or footprints) somewhere in the untapped abyss of the psyche. So when we get to work, the songs are crafted to describe whatever it is we talk about and may be going through at the time or until the next. I think it allows us to truly create a conversation in the song. One of the main things I wanted to make sure we touched on in The Reflecting Sea were our three ways of oral communication – Talking, Poetry, and Singing. I think the songs navigate between all three in order to illustrate the full scope of what we have in mind.
[Damu The Fudgemunk]: Philosophy is a product of thought and observation. For us, we looked at ourselves and asked, “How can we connect and do what we haven’t done before as a unit?” The monotony of life and our general patterns will sometimes dictate how we operate and impose unnecessary rules. There was no reason to neglect our full capabilities just for the sake of maintaining expectations. We both are capable of playing instruments. Jason sings, raps, spoken word and regularly experiments on his own. I’m similar in the regard that I’m constantly exploring my creativity. Once we put everything on the table it all made an appearance on the records. That was a new approach for us and it gave us a blueprint to move forward with our new sound which stemmed from fresh ideas. The whole process was fun and fulfilling.

Damu The Fudgemunk; When you know a beat is going to have an emcee on top, do you approach making it differently to a track you know is for an instrumental project?
It depends. If I’m in the act of working on an instrumental album then I’m not thinking of vocalists, but most of the time I have someone in mind. I don’t make a lot of beats like I used to so when I do, it’s when I’m inspired. As the music comes together then I visualize vocalists. Most of the time, it doesn’t matter if there are vocals or not to determine the direction. I make the music (it’s incomplete at that stage) then present it to the rapper for their contributions.
You tend to only work with a select group of rappers. How do you chose and filter who to collaborate with? Is there a vibe you get that just feels right? A personal connection you need to build first?
Well, you’re right about being selective. There’s tons of great rappers out there, but it doesn’t mean I need to chase them down to work with them and truth be told none of them are approaching me for production either. But, I’m fortunate to have access to the mc’s that I do work with. They’re all great in their own right and personally some of my favorites. Musically, I don’t need anyone else when I collaborate with guys like Insight and Raw Poetic. Both of whom are friends and the rapport calls for better collaborations.

With Raw P, he’s in my opinion one of the greatest of his time. There’s nothing he can’t do and he’s always challenging himself. When I’m in the zone and I’m making something I like, first thing that comes to mind is “Raw P is gonna kill this!”. I don’t ever have to explain what I’m thinking or musical direction and if I do it’s super minimal. He and I can just make music without talking to each other. We can just be in a room or apart and still make cohesive innovative music we like. Having that kind of faith in someone you work with is irreplaceable so I rarely look elsewhere. We know each other well enough in real life that when we create, either one of us can present an idea for the other to complete. We have a ton of fun too. I’m not the type of producer that works with a bunch of artists and sells beats. I tried to be that years ago and found my results were more satisfying and productive when I focus on myself and friends.
Your production features a lot of live instrumentation and musicality, including the ability to recreate classic breaks. Are you a trained musician, or self-taught?
I wouldn’t say a lot of live instruments are in my production. In comparison to some of the other producers in my era, I’m one who still relies heavily on sampling. When I do use instruments, it’s a garnish or enhancement. In The Reflecting Sea, we included more of our instrumental abilities. Several times a year we lock ourselves in a room with our real musician friends and jam for hours. Raw P will sing and play guitar while I’m on drums. That’s some of the best entertainment for me personally. We tapped into the energy of those sessions in the album.
Neither one of us is classically trained, but we train in whatever we have in our hands whether it’s a guitar or bass or vinyl or mic so that we’re comfortable enough to use it on record. Though you may hear or think you hear live instruments, we want it to be an afterthought. Does it sound good? If so, we’d prefer that people simply enjoy the music instead of picking apart the creative process beforehand.
I’d like to talk about Redefinition Records for a minute. To me, its always felt like a producer’s label first and foremost – a platform for your own music but also beatmakers like Klaus Layer, and K-Def, who I honestly believe is one of the greatest hip-hop producers of all time. Is the producer-heavy focus a big part of the label’s ethos?
To date, that’s what the label has become, but it wasn’t intentional. Redef is in its 10th year. It started with my partner John together with Ski and Camp lo and in year one I came aboard months after releasing the Y Society debut.

Ski’s camp eventually moved on and my career became the focus of the label. We weren’t really a label at the time until being forced to release records on our own after years of soliciting other labels for deals that were unsuccessful. Once things picked up for me, we slowly gained the experience and relationships to run the label as it grew. John had an existing relationship with K-Def and I was friends with Kev Brown, we were able to experiment with expanding our roster which proved to be a good call at that time. It just so happens we know more producers than rappers and the rappers we do know have all contributed to the label with Raw Poetic being the most prominent.
Our audience has grown to look to us for producer-centric releases, but a lot of it comes from the early days of pushing my aesthetic. That has become synonymous with the people who check for what we do. We’ve tried to work with more rappers in the past, but producers have been easier to manage. At least 80% of the demo submissions are producers. Speaking of which we’re never seeking new acts to sign. It boils down to, “will this artist do well with our audience”. When John discovered Klaus Layer, it was a matter of general appreciation, but a vision of whether Redef’s core would buy into his brand.
We’ve mixed it up over the years and fans show us what they like and what they pass on. Because we’re aware of that, satisfying that demand means not shifting focus too far from producers. In our personal lives, we check for all types of music. John loves Drake, The Lumineers and Nine Inch Nails. I zone out to Amadou & Miriam, Warpaint and Joanna Newsom. We check for a lot of new music, we’re just not in the business of branching out releasing it (though we’d like to). The MC K.A.A.N. is our attempt to introduce something modern that appeals to both of our sensibilities. Check him out if you haven’t.
The label is incredibly prolific with a dedication to vinyl. It’s also become an outlet for the vinyl release of music by independent icons like J-Zone and People Under The Stairs, taking on the expense that comes with pressing records. The current vinyl resurgence probably won’t last too long, but do you think they’ll always be a market for small/limited edition vinyl runs by smaller indy labels?
Thanks for the high regards, but I tell people all the time, “we’re just 2 guys with computers and cell phones”. We learned what it takes to make our records and sell them. We’re good at that process, but our quest for improvement is ongoing. Thanks to our loyal fanbase, we can take on projects like J-Zone and PUTS with the confidence that people will support. It goes without saying that certain acts have strong cores, and those two have very loyal bases of their own which makes a difference.
The vinyl resurgence will definitely peak and fall off at a certain point, but I don’t think it affects us or our peers too much. We had a demand for vinyl prior to the inflation. I’m sure our audience will continue to seek vinyl because it’s a part of life for many of our fans to buy things they like on vinyl regardless if it’s cool or not. However, if those values change within our core for whatever reason, then yes we’ll be affected, but it won’t be dictated by the masses. We’re not sold in Urban Outfitters or Barnes & Noble to casual and introductory listeners (we’d love to be in those places) so we’re not dependent on revenue from that market who is fueling the resurgence of the format.
Raw Poetic; One thing I’ve always liked about your music is the ability to change up your style. Sometimes you use a fast-paced, throwback emcee style, but at times a slower and more introspective flow. Are these different parts of your personality shining through, and how do you decide which to use?
They are different parts of the personality. I don’t think I really control any of them at this point in my life. I do know the beat does to a certain degree. Rapping, rapping, rapping… rapping is the skill you practice from about 5 to 27. Okay. Your mother helps you write your first one. It ends in “Jason, stop wasting your time with me- yell Kiya, Kiya, and bend your knee.” Then I counted to 5 and said, “I’m alive.” Then at 14, your older cousin shows you the ropes of freestyling and battling and tells you to stop listening to other MC’s if you really want to find your own voice. Next thing you know, you barely listen to it (rap) anymore and you get absorbed into what you and your friends are making.
Finally, you make a piece of a career out of your dream, realize you’ll probably die broke, discover that all the people who ask “can you do this for the love?” really have no love for you, and finally find out… you have no control over what’s coming out of your mouth anyway. You’re the vessel. Your life is speaking through poetry, and somehow it works. And sometimes, if you’re lucky, you have a friend like Damu who is the same way with beats. Anyway, that’s my lyrics in a nutshell.
A lot of heads probably first heard about you as one half of Panacea. How does working with K-Murdoch, a producer you came up with, compare to working with beatmakers like Damu, K-Def or Kev Brown, who were already established by the time you recorded with them? Does it take you out your comfort zone?
The funny thing is, I’ve been friends with Damu for just as long as K-Murdock. Damu did shows with me and my band Restoring Poetry in Music before Murdock and I ever made an album. So there wasn’t a big switch there. One friend makes more fantasy based worlds drifting type of beats, the other makes a more deep soul brooding boom bap type of sound. Here’s the biggest difference. With K-Def and Kev Brown, I got the chance to rap over beats I learned my craft in. True Boom Bap, hip-hop beats. For some reason, I could never find that in my career. With Damu, I get that, intertwined with live instrumentation, along with my own elements of guitar thrown into the mix. It’s like a smorgasbord of sound. That’s my bro.
Oh, sorry. Does it take me out of my comfort zone… Hmm… I don’t have one.
What’s the current status of Panacea? Are you still recording together?
Umm… whenever it makes sense. I just talked to Doc yesterday. We have about six songs recorded. Four I would actually put out. Doc has a family these days, so I just wait for him to be ready and move when I feel compelled. What I did explain to him is that at this age for me, music is a solo journey more than anything. I don’t have kids, so these songs/ pieces are like my children. Right now, my main concern after The Reflecting Sea is more Raw Poetic. The next Raw Poetic album is Paging Mother Earth, which is a party album based on the afterlife and legacy of my ancestors. I’ll gladly play it for you. But I can’t say much about Panacea until the album or EP is done. I always find it amazing that Panacea is still talked about. It’s awesome. I greatly appreciate it.
The group went through a run of different label situations, including a stint on Rawkus. The industry has, of course, changed beyond all recognition since then, but there’s still a lot of decent indy labels out there. Beyond the obvious financial side, what other benefits are there for an artist to work with a label like Redefinition Records? At the very least I guess it helps you stand out in a world saturated with so many Soundcloud links?
As far as Rawkus Records, Sony, etc… I never saw a dime. Talking about those days is almost like talking about your first girlfriend in high school. At the time, you thought you were in love and it would be forever. After 10 years removed, you realize you didn’t even know the meaning of the word… and you didn’t even have sex! Not that that matters.
Redef is more like dealing with family. I’ve been an independent artist most of my career. I’ve never been on a label as a solo artist, so that’s probably the biggest difference. I think the communication is better, and I never get the feeling that they’re trying to get over on me. After many years in the industry, this is the first time I didn’t have to watch my back with a label. It’s been fun. It’s also been a great experience in learning how to brand myself instead of getting your name lost in a group. I’ve been Raw Poetic for 24 years, but people only knew Panacea and RPM. So, yeah! Check out the Raw Poetic albums if you really want to know where I’m going – starting with Cool Convos in Quantum Speech (Raw Poetic & K-Def), and Concentrated Maneuvers (Raw Poetic & Kev Brown).

DC and the wider DMV area has generated so many dope hip-hop artists, but its still criminally underrated outside of those who know to check for you, Oddisee, the rest of the Low Budget Crew and a few others. Is that something you’ve ever been conscious of?
Yeah, but I don’t have an answer for it. I’m happy to see that Oddisee and Kev Brown are doing well. They’re dope and deserve all of their success. It’s all hustle at the end of the day. There’s no one formula. If you want it, you go get it. Even if it means separating from others. If you want some more DMV stuff, check the solo projects. It’s all live instrumentation, and I play everything: Charlie Brown Parents, Belong Anywhere, There’s a Moon in the Sea, Nature Girls Walk on the Wild Side (The B Sides), and Paging Mother Earth will be out next year, as well as the Raw Poetic & Mars V project. And most importantly, get that The Reflecting Sea… Welcome to a New Philosophy by Damu the Fudgemunk and Raw Poetic.

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The Reflecting Sea: Welcome to a New Philosophy is out now. Go to the Redefinition Records Bandcamp page to purchase, and to check out the rest of their extensive catalog. Follow them on Twitter.
Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Interview: Matt Diamond

New York native Matt Diamond is a busy man, running an influential music marketing company and a label, Coalmine Records. We talked to him about Coalmine’s latest project, Beats, Mines and Life: An Instrumental Journey, the history and ethos behind the label, and more.
Tell us about the concept behind Beats, Mines and Life: An Instrumental Journey.
Shouts for the Q&A. And lemme take a moment to give credit where it’s due, but I appreciate the day-in, day-out work you’ve been puttin’ in for the site. You’ve carved out a nice niche for where the dope shit could live in cyberspace. As for Beats, Mines and Life, I wanted to get a new project off the ground quickly to christen Coalmine’s new deal with EMPIRE Distribution, before we start getting into some of our full-length projects. Conceptually, I just thought it would be fresh to put the spotlight on the producers we’ve worked with over the years in the form of a beat tape, and highlight some of the more standout instrumentals off our catalog.

It feels like something of a pet project. Is it an idea you’ve had for a while?
I first toyed with the idea during the summer and thought a beat tape would not only be a quick and easy way to drop some content, but would also be fitting to drop on cassette in time for Cassette Store Day. So from there came the fun part of digging through our catalog and curating the tracklist.
The scope of producers included is pretty epic. How did you decide on the list of tracks to include?
I first cut my teeth as a deejay, so it comes pretty natural for me to group tracks together. I didn’t dig too far back into our catalog, so mostly everything’s from the 2nd half of our label’s history…or the past five years. But I wanted to make sure that I represented a good balance of the producers we’ve worked with, while sonically making sure all of the tracks fit. It was a bit of a jigsaw puzzle, but if you give it a listen, you could get a good sense of how most of the instrumentals just work really well together in sequence. I know I’ve done my part when after just a few listens you could sense the next track come in before it drops.
Did you have to make any tough choices, leaving some strong contenders out of the mix to make sure the tracklist was kept succinct?
Yah there were a couple tough choices. I was most torn between going with the original, M-Phazes produced version of Perfect Timing, or the Max I Million remix. I love ‘em both, but decided on the latter; M-Phazes is already well represented on the project with four other instrumentals, and the remix I thought worked really well in sequence.

Other than that, I was a bit indecisive on which Thelonious Martin-produced track off Molotov (Saga & Thelonious Martin) to use, but the vibe of They Don’t Know was the perfect closer. It wasn’t until after I was decided on the tracklist that I made the connection between the last track and the album title. Thelo used the same Minnie Riperton sample for Inside My Love that ATCQ used for, Lyrics to Go, so that pretty much sealed the deal, considering that the album title is a play on ATCQ’s fourth album.

I recently read an interview with Blockhead, where he was asked if there’s still a place for instrumental Hip-Hop. In my opinion there definitely is, but I’m intrigued to hear your thoughts.
Haha, I know that interview you’re talking about. Overall, I think you could reach a broader audience with instrumentals – not everyone is a fan of rap, but a great beat will resonate with almost any music lover. There’s also a lot of incredible production that just isn’t rap friendly. Ya know, the type of beats that sound incredible by themselves, but either just don’t work, or are too busy to be accompanied by vocals.
But I think a lot of music platforms realize the impact and significance of instrumental Hip-Hop. Spotify’s dedicated more space for instrumentals, with a rollout of new playlists; Lofi Hip Hop, Chill Instrumental Beats, and Trap & 808 Instrumental Beats. Longstanding vinyl retailer/distributor Fat Beats has been showcasing their homage for instrumental Hip-Hop as of late with their producer’centric vinyl series, Baker’s Dozen (listen to these installments from Ras G and Marco Polo). And then, of course, there’s the Beat Society showcase, which is dedicated to the fine art of beatmaking, and has been doin’ its thing since the early/mid-aughts.
What’s interesting about Beats, Mines and Life: An Instrumental Journey is that, for someone like me who was already familiar with the vocal version of many of the tracks, you get a different perspective now, focusing your ear on the beat rather than the lyrics. Was that part of the intention?
I think inevitably that was part of the intention. When music can exist as an unscripted open vacuum, it could take on an entirely new meaning. I’m usually always amazed when I hear the full instrumental version of a track for the first time, after first being only familiar with the vocal version. Sometimes the difference is really subtle, like being able to single out the bassline with a bit more clarity. Other times the difference is night and day, like when the vocals drown out the sample, and the instrumental track takes on a new form.
I also think that by lumping these beats together on one project, sans vocals, you get a greater understanding of our sound and our brand as a label. And akin to the artists we work with, there’s a certain pulse that remains somewhat constant, a common denominator of sorts that binds our releases together. Beats, Mines and Life helps bring that pulse to the forefront.
For those not familiar with Coalmine Records as a label, can you give us a potted history?
As a quick rundown, I launched Coalmine in ’05, solely with the intention of dropping a couple vinyl singles here and there. I couldn’t have picked a worse time – vinyl sales were in a sharp decline, and everything was starting to become digital. But I stayed the course, soaked up game, and would eventually release a bunch of full-length projects. After doing this for over a decade now, we’ve released full projects to date with the likes of Blu & Nottz, Guilty Simpson & Small Professor, Planet Asia & DJ Concept, Sean Price (RIP) & M-Phazes, Saga & Thelonious Martin, El Da Sensei, Bekay, Aaron Rose (Pro Era), and more, and have worked with everyone from the likes of Pharoahe Monch, C.L. Smooth, Kool G Rap, Large Professor, Masta Ace, Skyzoo, Rah Digga, The Artifacts, Talib Kweli, Heltah Skeltah, Big Noyd, Supernatural, Roc Marci, AG, Apathy & Celph Titled, The Beat Junkies (DJ Babu, DJ Rhettmatic), DJ Revolution, and a bunch others. Since 2013, all of our releases have been emcee/producer collaborations, and I don’t intend on that to change anytime soon.
To get a good idea of what we’re about, press play on our decennary compilation LP, Unearthed, which is mixed by the incredible DJ Revolution. I’d like to think of this as our label’s Soundbombing II.

What’s next up for the label?
We have our first 10-Inch vinyl release planned for Record Store Day/Black Friday (11/24). I’m gonna keep the details on this one a secret for the time being. To kick off the new year, we’re gonna drop our final installment from Blu & Nottz, which will conclude the series. And earlier this year, we announced a collab LP from Diabolic & Vanderslice which should see the light of day sometime next year. But we always have something new in the works, and if it’s not a full-length project, we’re usually releasing something on 45 for either of the two Record Store Day holidays, so just follow us online and you’ll be kept in the loop.

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Beats, Mines and Life: An Instrumental Journey is out now. Cassette copies were sold our for a while, but they are currently back in stock at Fat Beats here. Follow Coalmine Records on Twitter.
Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Interview: Blueprint

Blueprint has become hugely respected on the independent hip-hop scene, thanks to a string of solid solo releases and collaborations, going back to 1999 and his debut EP as part of Greenhouse Effect. More recently he has garnered praise for his Super Duty Tough Work podcast, alongside his long-time friend and collaborator, Illogic. He is also releasing his first feature-length film this year, King No Crown. We caught up with him to discuss the project, his disciplined work ethic and the benefits of being able to speak openly and honestly. Interview by Gingerslim.

Your new film, King No Crown, is due for release soon. Can you give us a little bit of background on the project?
I started wanting to try my hand at making a movie around 2012 or so and, even though my first few attempts didn’t work out, I kept my eyes open for any projects that I might be able to execute. My initial idea for the King No Crown movie came to me around the beginning of 2015, about five months before the album was released. The first thing I did was have a friend do an interview with me about topics from the album and from being an independent artist in general. When I saw how well that came out it gave me the inspiration to try a little more, so I had my guy Mario follow me around with a camera to track some of the action as I prepared to release the King No Crown album. At first, it was just supposed to be around 20-30 minutes, but as I started getting into it I saw that it had the potential to be much more, so I decided to dive deeper into it and really bring it to life as a full-length movie.

You’ve been involved in the creative world for years, was filmmaking just the natural progression for you from your interest in photography? Had you ever had a desire to make a film before this?
I think film was definitely a natural progression for me. Several years back, it really hit me how being a writer is my primary occupation and the only thing that really changes is the medium I use to tell my stories on. From music to podcasting, to books, and now to film; it just feels like natural progression to me. Naturally, there are a lot of technical things you have to learn to even be able to make an average film, but it feels no different than any of the other disciplines I’ve dedicated myself towards learning at a high level.
I didn’t own my own camera until 2011 and never had much of a desire to make movies prior to that. But getting a good camera taught me how powerful images and video are in storytelling. Once I saw that, I had to dive deeper into it.

Now you’ve made the film, do you think it is something you will pursue further?
As far as I’m concerned, this film is just the beginning. It’s been such an inspiring experience to see my idea actually come alive on screen that I definitely plan on doing more films in the future. My second film has been started already, but I don’t want to divulge too much about it yet until it’s a bit further along. It’s definitely coming though and should hopefully be out within a year or less.
And do you think there will ever be a point in the future where you step away from making hip-hop to focus purely on another medium?
I’m a hip-hop head to the core, so I don’t think there will ever be a time that I stop writing rhymes and making beats. There may be a time when I do a little more film work than music, but music will always be a huge part of my life.
I know part of the film’s main theme is the feeling of losing time and I was wondering if that was always a feeling you’ve had, or something that was borne from your accident back in 2015?
For sure. The accident we had in 2015 was a huge wake-up call to all of us. Sometimes you can be so busy pushing forward that you can forget to celebrate where you’ve come from. But then when you have a near-death experience like that, you realize just how sacred life is and how we should be celebrating it more by doing what we love every day. I’ve always felt like life is really short and should be enjoyed, but having it almost taken away from you in the blink of an eye really reminded me of that more than ever.
Something that’s inspired me is your work ethic. You describe your days as being scheduled by social media time, studio time, reading time etc. I’ve heard artists like Oddisee say the same, and it’s this organization that has allowed you to do music full-time. Is it something you think a lot of artists overlook?
Totally. Most artists live by a belief that they should only work when they’re inspired, not when it’s time to work, so they reject structure. To me, having structure is what allows me to get so much more work done. I still goof off sometimes even with the schedule, but the schedule and structure are always there to remind me of what I should be doing, or more importantly that I should be doing something. There’s no way I could get the amount of work done that I do without some real structure.
Weightless has been the putting out quality music since its inception. What was your original vision for the label when you started it?
Thank you. My original vision was that Weightless would be the platform that none of us ever had access to living in Ohio. Most artists from big cities know what it’s like to have major labels and media near them, but we never had that. As a result, I just wanted Weightless to be that – a platform for us to put out our creative work.
Do you feel you’ve exceeded your expectations as far as that’s concerned and has its success given you a different vision for the future of the label?
The goals I set for myself at anything are always really high, so I never actually feel like I’ve exceeded any expectations. There’s always so much farther things could go, especially as media and what a label is keeps on evolving and changing every year. Once upon a time, we were doing CDs and tapes, then books and vinyl, next will be movies and who knows what else. I’m just happy to still be around, but I’m never satisfied.
I just wanted to touch briefly on the Orphanage as I think of you guys as one of my favorite crews that never really existed as a crew, if that makes sense. I was wondering if there was a desire among any of you at the time to actually sit down and make more music, or was it more of a spontaneous thing when you happened to all be together?
At the time we did the Orphanage project we were all super in love with the idea of being our own version of one of rap’s super-groups. So once we formed the group we all met up in Minneapolis and spent a few days there writing and recording. It was a great time and we were all excited about it. I don’t think we really understood the pressure that came along with being a super-group at the time we recorded the Orphanage project together, we were just having fun. Later on, we saw that having fun is cool, but we would be judged really seriously on whatever we dropped. And, with five different people involved, it would take a whole lot of work to make a cohesive album that fit all of our standards. The year after we recorded, things really started to take off for all of us, so that also became something that we would have had to balance if we would have ever picked back up the project. It was amazing to spend three or four days straight, sleeping on couches, and working on music with my friends, but I think we all understood that some of the magic and fun would be lost if we ever released the project.

You’ve always been very open and honest about your career, both its ups and downs. I was wondering if there was anything you might do differently if you were given the chance to go through it again?
Nah not really. Anything that went bad for me gave me an opportunity to learn something that I applied later. I’ve never really had any regrets about my career because I truly believe every decision I made was the best decision given the information I had at the time. So I would probably do everything all over again the exact same way if given the opportunity.
Sticking with that honesty theme for a second, we’re big fans of your Super Duty Tough Work podcast. What’s refreshing about it for us is that you don’t shy away from saying what a lot of people within the hip-hop media world are afraid to. Yet you aren’t doing it in a controversial way or trying to cause scandal. You are just saying what needs to be said. Is that quite a liberating experience?
Oh yeah. Being able to talk candidly about those topics is the most liberating thing for me and Illogic. So many artists can never truly say what they really believe because they fear backlash for it, but we’ve set things up to where our listeners have allowed us to just be ourselves and honest. When people first hear our podcast, a lot of them are blown away because they’re just not used to that level of openness. Then after they listen for a while they love it.
What’s next for you after the film has been released and the promo run is over?
Next up for me will be getting my next solo album, Two-headed Monster, ready for 2018 release. I’m putting the final touches on it now and I’m excited to get it out to the people. After that should be the Soul Position reunion album.

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The King No Crown film is released on November 7, and you can pre-order a copy here.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.

Interview: Dave Cooley

Stones Throw Records followers and liner note junkies will probably recognize the name Dave Cooley from albums like Donuts, Madvillainy, Champion Sound, The Further Adventures of Lord Quas, and Ruff Draft. Cooley is a world-renowned and well sought after mixing and mastering engineer, audio restoration specialist, and producer at Los Angeles-based mastering studio, Elysian Masters. He’s currently working on a number of “top-secret” projects and audio restorations/re-issues with the assistance of Elysian Masters’ recently attained and newly-restored Neumann VMS66 lathe-cutting machine, of which there are only a few left in existence. Matt ‘The Witzard’ Horowitz recently interviewed Cooley about everything from Paramore to Silversun Pickups, J Dilla to DOOM, and everything in-between.

How much does the overall sound (to the common ear) of an album generally change and progress from when you first get it from the artist to when you’re completely done mixing and mastering?

Well it can change quite a bit in terms of where the focus is being drawn to within the tune. Ultimately my goal is to honor what the intention was, the feel that the artist was originally shooting for… but just more of that same feel and more energized. By the time things are mastered, the listener’s ear should be drawn to the interplay of all the different sonic registers and events, so that the music sounds more dimensional, huge, and sort of animated in presentation. That might be done through pressurizing the sound (compression), highlighting or separating things (EQ), smoothing the high frequencies, or spatializing the mix. Spatializing means handling the depth from the upfront leading edge of the sound all the way to the “back wall” or deeper image of the sound.

Now some people will say mastering is just getting things “loud” which is somewhat true, but it’s not that easy. You’ve got a limited amount of canvas, and to maximize every square inch of it with the least amount of degradation to the signal…. it’s knowledge that takes a long time to develop. A lot of easy processes that people have access to at home are either the wrong choice… or overcomplicated and tricky to simplify. Knowing which parameters on a piece of hardware or plugin to not touch on an album, or to take out all together… again, not easy… takes years of experimenting. I compare it to surfing. Looks easy but it’s a lot of muscle memory built up over time. No way are you not wiping out first 10-50 attempts.

How much hands-on or face-to-face interaction do you typically have with artists like Madlib & Freddie Gibbs, DOOM, Silversun Pickups, Paramore, Electro-Acoustic Beat Sessions, Washed Out, etc?

I’ve been lucky enough to work with some amazing artists and really enjoyed being there with them during the creation of the music, mapping out songs and performances. That was in my producing days with bands like SSPU and others. There’s so much face to face when producing that it’s like you’re in a mountaineering base camp together; making a record with a band really does feel like climbing a mountain. On the other hand, when it comes to mastering we have a no attendance policy while doing EQ (Equalization). It’s a one day process usually and I find that almost nobody expects to attend anyway. It’s both a technical and a meditative process; it doesn’t help the music if we’re trading war stories or jokes while I’m working. I take that very seriously and I need to zone in and listen deeply to the tunes. Sometimes the artist will come in at the end of the record and work on spacing/sequencing with me in the studio and I really enjoy that, but even that’s rare these days… most people just fire off notes or tweaks, if any after listening.

Do artists ever disagree with decisions you often have to make during the mastering stage, especially those who are producers themselves? You really must have gone to-to-toe with some sizeable egos, over the years, plus plenty of perfectionists like J Dilla!

Very occasionally, but less and less… and if there’s a redirection after the first listening it’s always for the best because it’s almost universally a project preference thing and not a technical thing at that point. They want it brighter or less bright, that’s pretty common. But often times I’m taken aback by how quick we get through a record, one pass in many instances. Ironically Dilla… the perfectionist… signed off on everything almost immediately with very little second guessing. Madlib too. I would say experience = less indecision. Both on the engineer’s part and on the artist’s end.

The names of engineers often only get noticed by crate-diggin’ liner note junkies, but when you read histories of classic Hip-Hop studios like Callipe, Power Play, D&D, and SugarHill Recording Studios, the engineers always get their proper shine; would you say that Hip-Hop is a genre that really appreciates and respects the skills an engineer brings to the table?

There are times that we engineers are acknowledged and it’s appreciated: a shout out in a rhyme to Mario Caldato or Bob Powers, etc. I was very grateful to be included in much of what’s been written about J-Dilla’s story and legacy as another example. And then conversely, there are times when we’re plainly written out of the historic narrative. Not every single record necessarily; It’s more like when you see a body of work or a true contribution to a sound or label that engineers should be given their fair share of acknowledgement I think.

What album(s) have you contributed to that you’re most proud of and which album (if any) would you go back and approach differently knowing what you know now, in retrospect?

My favorite mix was for These New Puritans’ Hidden album, if only for how wild it was sonically, and just surviving the sheer track count with orchestra, programmed drums, and live band. I think I have Stockholm Syndrome on that one. My favorite mastering jobs I’ve done, probably the two M83 records and our recent Bob Marley: Exodus 40th Anniversary reissue. And Madvillainy because it’s pretty reckless and punk in spirit.

As far as what I would approach differently today… probably all of them done pre 2017! Not that they should have been done different, but I prefer to keep evolving. If my skills and techniques remain the same then I’m not honoring new ways of looking at things, or I’m not trying to do my best sonics yet. The early Stones Throw records, some of the techniques on those… I wouldn’t default to now. But they became part of the sound of those records. It fit the music, and people liked what it was contributing as far as the aggressive and disorienting sound. Sometimes I get requests to run things like that (which is retro at this point) and I do it if it’s right for the record. No absolute methodology, just whatever supports the vibe of the record.

How exactly did you go from playing in Rock bands to producing for Silversun Pickups to mixing for J Dilla and Madlib to mastering records for Paramore and Jimmy Eat World to doing audio restoration and working with the Neumann VMS66 lathe? Your musical career path really sounds like it’s been one hell of an exciting journey!

It was borne out of necessity. When I got in, it was the tail end of the music industry as it was previously known. We went from a Pangea major label land mass to a broken up world of independents. To survive, you needed to be able to translate between the differing cultures and sub-genres, and navigate between all the newly minted indie labels. You needed to be a jack of all trades too because budgets were scant. Lastly, I spoke “record collector”, which was the equivalent of a rosetta stone… and hard to find in an audio engineer in the early 00s. That really helped me lock up with Light In The Attic, NowAgain, Stones Throw, Dangerbird etc. I guess things have only gone further in that direction since. For my clientele I still need to know the difference between zamrock, beach goth, and next gen new age… what those sound like. I don’t think most mastering engineers do.

What was it like being right there in the studio while Madlib & DOOM crafted and recorded Madvillainy? Do you happen to have any particularly crazy stories you’re able to mention from those fateful sessions at The Bomb Shelter?

Well the beat making all happened at Madlib’s Bomb Shelter before I was brought in; he had hundreds of 2 track beat snippets on CDs. In one month of reclusive producing he had a CD made up called “100 beats”. Two weeks later, he had another CD made up called “Another 100 beats”. He had Jeff Jank (in house designer at Stones Throw) make custom album artwork for these CDs which were only used internally at the label and to shop beats to MCs. DOOM would go through those to pick out his faves. Most (if not all) of the material for Madvillainy, Jaylib’s Champion Sound, and I think Dudley Perkin’s first album was sourced from that one month’s worth of Madlib beats!.

The music was then imported to Protools at my place, and then DOOM tracked all the vocals. We had a great mic sound and workflow, everything got pretty well cinched up. DOOM took the semi-final material home and upon review decided that he had put everything down with “too much energy” in the vocal takes. So all those takes were scrapped! He ended up re-recording the vocals with a super laid back delivery, on a rough mic, and those became the finals… I think to the betterment of the record. It just had a better dichotomy to it. Madlib’s beats were so day-glo intense; DOOM’s casual delivery worked well against that. I also remember loaning DOOM a book: Tao of Physics. Every time I saw him he wanted to talk about that; he was really into the the idea that quantum physics was a manifestation of the ancient Tao teachings. So some of that super-consciousness you get from his rhymes, it’s informed from places other than psychotropic substances. He was more of a hip-hop Tim Leary: well-read in addition to being a cosmic explorer. Also, we probably went through about 8-10 differing album sequences for Madvillainy… over a period of 2-3 months. Peanut Butter Wolf and Jeff Jank were grinding out how it was strung together, there were probably 50-60 snippets of audio scene changes that needed to be put in a particular order, to create that audio-meets-comic-book feel.

While recently perusing your Discogs profile, I noticed you’ve had a hand in nearly every Adrian Younge (Linear Labs) release since 2013, including Adrian Younge Presents The Delfonics, Ghostface Killah’s 12 Reasons to Die I & II, Something About April II, and The Electronique Void (Black Noise). What’s it been like steadily working alongside Younge as his career rapidly progresses and evolves? How did it feel being part of what most would quite arguably call Ghostface’s recent “Rap career resurgence”?

Adrian is a really heavy artist in that he’s a multi-instrumentalist composer/arranger. And he cranks out consistently great records. He and I have worked closely together over the years to get a finished sound for his records that people recognize immediately, and he’s great at getting me input on what he needs the mastering to sound like. Working for his projects is right in my wheelhouse (historic record presentation mixed with hip-hop/breaks). He’s also probably one of the most gentlemanly dudes I’ve ever worked with, a savvy businessman, and a great friend. As far as 12 Reasons to Die, I was a fan of Wu-Tang Clan of course from way back. While I was mastering, I was trying to get it where I felt like I was listening to a classic Wu record for the first time all over again. Am I getting that record buzz I remember from being a teenage rap fan skipping class? If so, move to the next song. Sweat, repeat.

How did you go about attaining your fully-restored Neumann VMS66 lathe-cutting machine now housed at Elysian Masters? I remember you’ve said you and your crew used it to cut Ariel Pink, Betty Davis, and Paramore’s recent records… but what exactly does it do, for those who may not be familiar with such a machine?

Well this particular vinyl lathe was rescued from the backyard of a DJ in Boston who didn’t have the time or resources to restore it properly and get it running again. We spent about a year with four people working on it, and 10s of thousands of dollars, to get it cracking again. It is now cutting amazing records, just amazing. We went nuts making sure that the lathe was restored to the condition it would have left the German factory in 1966, which was truly a painful process. Then we took it miles further by improving the electronic components and wiring, shortening signal paths, and optimizing the computer that handles the groove placement.

We got it to the point where we were benefiting from the fantastic original discrete designs by optimizing them with new component choices, but also benefiting from certain modern upgrades that could only happen within the last couple years. The result is a lathe that cuts a lacquer master for vinyl that is really efficiently cut. And super musical and high fidelity. The running times can be longer, the depth of cut can be deeper for more volume and better signal to noise, and lead outs at the ends of sides are long. This puts most of the music on the outermost diameters where it sounds the best. We feel it’s the best cut for the money out there and possibly at any price point. So once our clients have a 14” lacquer master from our shop, then that is sent out for electroplating to create the metal parts and then the stampers that will handle the production run for a vinyl release.

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Matt Horowitz has been a hip-hop fan ever since he first heard Wu-Tang Clan’s Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) back in the mid-90’s, which positively or negatively changed his life ever since, depending on who you ask. He single-handedly runs online music publication The Witzard, and has been fortunate enough to interview Eothen ‘Egon’ Alapatt, Guilty Simpson, Dan Ubick, Career Crooks’ Zilla Rocca & Small Professor, Kool A.D., Cut Chemist, and J-Zone, amongst countless others. He enjoys writing about and listening to hip-hop, Punk/Hardcore, and Indie Rock on vinyl with his lovely fiance, while drinking craft beer, red wine, or iced coffee. To paraphrase both Darko The Super and the Beastie Boys: “Already Dead fans, they want more of this… I’m a Witzard like my man Matt Horowitz!”. Follow Matt here.

Premiere: Uncommon Nasa – ‘More Than Two Suns’ + Interview

Emcee and producer Uncommon Nasa has been making hip-hop independently for years, with a huge body of work to his name. We caught up to talk about his excellent recent album, Written At Night, the production process, and his love of New York City. We’re also proud to premiere the incredible More than Two Suns; which Uncommon Nasa describes as a mix of rarities, hits, and new tracks. It was mixed by UK DMC Championship Finalist and Last Sons member Furious P.

Your brand of rap is sometimes hard to define. Not that pigeonholing an artist is necessary at all, but if you had to, how would you personally describe your sound? You’ve used the term Progressive Hip-Hop in the past.

I like to consider myself a conversational writer and performer. I have a number of rhyme styles that I use, depending on the theme of the track or the style of the beat. But usually it comes down to me doing something with space for the thoughts I’m putting out there to be fully absorbed and somewhat pondered in the mind of the listener. That’s why I’d call it conversational. When I’m performing, I like to involve the crowd in addressing them in between songs and delivering my lines in a clear and effective manner. I don’t want my music or my performance to ever come off like I’m showing off or that it’s all some cheap party trick or a talent show.

Tell us about Written At Night.

The album was put together purposefully as something I would produce in full and that would have a good number of collaborations. It was also important to me that the record still hit a central theme of some sort and that it was wholly mine overall. I think I was able to do that. All the people I collaborated with are immensely talented, so it was a fun, but challenging effort to try and concept tracks that played to their strengths while still having to deliver my end of the bargain each and every time.

You have features on there from people you’ve worked with before, Billy Woods and Open Mike Eagle for instance, but more guests overall than some of your other works. Do you see this one as more of a collaborative project?

It is, but it isn’t. This is my album, I concepted all the tracks, made all the beats, etc. I wrote each song first for myself, then took all I had and sent it to the artist. I’d hate for it to be caught in some weird “duets” or “posse cut” zone, because that’s not what this is at all. In most cases when I was writing, not only did I know where I was going conceptually, but I also knew who I’d want on the track with me. I tried to put everyone I worked with in a position where they had a beat they’d be comfortable with, subject matter that I felt they’d be familiar with and with a prepared product of what I was doing on it in my space. All said though, yes, aside from two of the 11 tracks there is a guest and I know that working with all of those people made this album something it could have never been if it was just a standard solo record.

The music you make has a passionate love for New York City, similar to El-P, in a way that cuts deeper than a rapper meaninglessly shouting out their borough. You write very vividly about the city as a living entity. What exactly does NYC mean to you?

I always felt privileged to live and grow in NYC. Coming from Staten Island as a younger guy I was part of the city, but I wasn’t experiencing it at full measure. So I’d see movies like The Warriors or Hangin with the Homeboys and want to be a part of that. Those nights out on the town are kind of key to this record in fact. But my point is, unlike people that saw those movies far from NYC, I was actually here, so I just started traveling to it with my friends and by the time I was 17 I had a gig in Manhattan and haven’t looked back since. I’ve been in Manhattan probably 75% of my time since turning 17. If not more. So it’s like I said on Written At Night, “I’m a would be, could be city kid/instantly paying dues and bids”. That really is my perspective on my city, so I value it enough to write about it as often and as vividly, if you will, as I do.

You’ve talked before about being an early adopter of releasing music online. Did you foresee what’s happened in the last ten years?

I hate to say yes. But um, yes? There were a few things I was right about early on, for better or worse. The first thing I realized when I started my label in 2004 is that on the physical market I could no longer keep up with the costs endured by labels for the volume of releases that were needed to be relevant. The digital distribution business model started around that time and by 2006 I had signed a deal for Uncommon Records. I knew that this was a way for us to keep up with the larger indies in terms of volume of product without enduring the volume of cost. And that sort of became the model, right? For a number of years, this was the case up to the point of today where it’s perhaps just too easy for too many people to work this way.

The other thing I called back then was when the streaming model began to emerge, I immediately said “this is a trap!”. I felt like once major labels became involved in this sort of thing it would become a walled garden, where they didn’t just own the bats and the balls for the game, they owned the field the game was played on. Once a major owns the field like that, it can dictate who’s allowed to play and who’s allowed to play at what level. And you see that there’s a huge battle behind the scenes in promoting records or trying to get on playlists. There are hoops you have to jump through in order to get placed on these things that usually translate to “don’t bother unless you are on a major”. It’s a manipulated part of the business. The consumer owns nothing, has the appearance of choice, with no actual choice. I wrote blog posts and talked about it online a lot back in 2010 or so, but nobody really cares about what I’m saying right? Haha.

Your back catalog is sizable. Does the ease and speed at which you can get music online mean there’s a compulsion for you to pretty much make everything you record available for public consumption?

To be honest, I’ve always been an artist where you are hearing almost everything I make. I don’t have a stash of unreleased material, because when I sit down to make something I’m already envisioning how this will be released and received. It’s not to say that informs my art and forces my hand to do one thing or another, but when I create, I’m creating for an audience from the first drop of ink from my pen. I think this comes from my background in recording studios and seeing the process of genesis to birth repeatedly take place in music.

As far as getting music online, I think it’s easier to start this process quicker and bring it to fruition, but I think I’m releasing as much as I’ve always been capable of talent wise. And when I release something, I try to make sure I do all I can to make sure people hear it. When I release an album or a project of any kind, there is an attempt to promote it fully. There is cover art and/or merch that is as professional and thoughtful as we can create. I think the bigger issue is sort of just folks that toss shit on Soundcloud and Bandcamp un-mixed, un-mastered, demo style recordings with no original artwork. If you embrace that and are aware that that’s a short coming and you just want to get feedback or have fun, that’s fine too. But cats that approach releases that way shouldn’t be under any false impression that it goes beyond their fun and growth.

It must also be quite liberating to have complete freedom to release projects with perhaps less mass appeal, like your instrumental albums, or EPs like Orange Military?

The freedom to do what I want was always going to be there, because that’s just who I am. To be honest, I always want more attention for everything I do and I’m never that satisfied. I feel happy, but satisfaction is never really there. It never will be. Even an instrumental project like Cold War Era, I don’t do those as side projects or dumps. I did that to make it as big as it could be. I understand it’s an experimental beat tape and that there are confines to that, but I want to reach the top of those confines. And to some extent we did, we got coverage at this awesome site called Gimme Tinitus and I got to build with the guys that run that site online. That felt good, but that’s an example of where even with a perceived “smaller project”, I still have an idea to grow from it and take it seriously.

You often record live instruments and then chop them up. Can you describe the process in more detail?

Sure – with Written At Night in particular there was a goal set out for me to not sample, or to certainly use less samples. And I hit that goal with this record. It’s something I was considering before I was even approached to do the record, so the timing was perfect for me to jump into creating this in that way. I pretty much create my own samples now. I play something out the way I would have heard on a record and then flip it as if I got it off vinyl. I also play things on top of that on keys free hand, which I’ve actually always done. I’ve slowly and surely built up a small arsenal of tools to help make this happen, but in truth I could have stopped with my MPC and an Ipad with apps and still pulled this sound off. In fact, most of what you hear on Written At Night was made with those two tools at its core.

Tell us about your relationship with Man Bites Dog Records.

It’s been great so far, and I have had absolute creative freedom. I made the exact record I would have released on Uncommon Records and we put together the artwork independently as if it was being self-released. There were even songs that went far left like Gingerbread Hag that I didn’t know whether or not I’d be questioned, but that wasn’t the case at all. And I think to some extent I was able to pull off sounds as varied as Compass and Gingerbread Hag on the same record due to placement and over all theme.

It’s good to have another ear, another person that’s depending on you getting something done. I’ve always been self-sufficient in that way, but having someone texting you at 9am with a video concept or asking for a response to an email that’s invested in your record is a welcome change. It’s been a long time coming in reality, I’ve always been open to the idea of working with other labels, it just was never the right situation.

You also have your own Uncommon Records imprint. What are the advantages of releasing music on your own company versus via a label like Man Bites Dog Records?

Obviously when you have someone else investing time and money into you it can only make you stronger. I’ve been carrying my own weight for quite some time so it’s nice to do less lifting, even though I am still doing plenty. Uncommon Records does continue on, I am finishing a record with Last Sons (Duke01 and Furious P) which I fully produced. I’m starting my next solo record that will be produced by Messiah Musik and I am starting the follow up to Autonomy Music with Short Fuze. That, among some other projects I can’t mention yet, will all be on Uncommon unless they end up placed with other labels as well.

What’s next after Written At Night?

We have some more videos to release and I’d tentatively say I’m looking to tour in November and early 2018 as well. That along with working on the releases I mentioned earlier are my immediate plans.

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Written At Night is out now on Man Bits Dog Records. Follow Uncommon Nasa here. Photo by Mike Petrow. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Remembering Sean Price, two years on

August 8, 2015, was the greatest day of my life. That was the day my wife and I welcomed our daughter into the world, and although the fleeting UK summer is usually done by August, the sun was shining brightly in London that day.

In the space outside of our baby bubble, Sean Price died.

The passing of a man I’d never met was obviously not going to overshadow the birth of my child, but the loss of such a bright light from a culture I’ve loved almost my entire life still resonated somewhere at the back of my mind.

The news began to fill up my Twitter timeline during the early stages of labor. In between counting early contractions and panicking about how this parenthood thing was actually about to go down for real, I devoured as many articles as I could about the man who liked to call himself P. It’s what I’d done exactly two months earlier when Pumpkinhead died, what I did a year later in 2016 when Phife left us, and what I had to do again just a few weeks ago in June when we lost Prodigy.

Two years on from that day and my daughter is a walking, talking little person, full of life. I’m even occasionally allowed to dress her in a De La Soul ‘1 Foot High & Rising’ t-shirt I managed to persuade my wife she needed.

Sean Price is still gone, but his legacy remains thanks to various tributes, guest verse appearances for other artists, and an endless run of music videos filmed in front of his memorial wall in Brooklyn.

Few have done more to keep his spirit alive than his label, Duck Down Records, who today release a new Sean Price album, Imperius Rex. The Alchemist-produced title track was predictably good, and with featured guests including DOOM and P’s Boot Camp Click brothers Buckshot and Smif-N-Wessun, it’s poised to be a worthy reminder of how good SP could be when he was busy competing against his peers on the mic.

In a painful twist of fate, the latest single is colored with extra sadness; The 3 Lyrical Ps features Styles P and Prodigy. For two of the three emcees on this record to somehow both be gone, each of them only in their early 40s, adds a poignant extra layer to the track.

I’ll be too busy celebrating my daughter’s 2nd birthday to think about Sean Price today. But I will buy the album, in some small way to help support P’s family, but mostly because it’s probably going to be dope.

Life and death are inevitable, but music is a force powerful enough to work as a celebration of both. Every record in my collection holds a story of exactly where I was in my life when I made the purchase. When I come to slot Imperius Rex into my meticulously arranged racks, it will forever be a reminder of how my life changed for the better on that day in 2015. And that’s not a bad way to remember Sean Price.

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Imperius Rex is out now. Buy here. Words by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.

Premiere: Career Crooks – 'Steve Martin' (video) + Interview

Career Crooks is made up of emcee/beatmaker/writer Zilla Rocca, and producer Small Professor. They’ve been making music for years (check their respective Bandcamp pages here and here), but are now reaching a wider audience on the strength of their excellent new album, Good Luck With That, and the warm-up EP, Take What’s Coming. Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche spoke to them about writing, drawing inspiration from TV and film, their working process, and more. We also premiere the video for the latest single from the album, Steve Martin. Photos by Bob Sweeney.

There’s something very cinematic about Good Luck With That and Career Crooks as a group, running through everything from the name itself, to the artwork, and most notably, the themes and atmosphere of the music. I’m intrigued to find out if you, Zilla Rocca, write rhymes in a visual way, and if you, Small Professor, approach beat making as if scoring a movie?
[Zilla Rocca]: I like to write pretty specifically. And I’ve always enjoyed rappers and writers who pointed out very specific things. In rap, the greats like Nas, Slick Rick, Ghostface, Biggie, etc really placed premiums on the small details when they told stories, so even if you had no reference points on your own, it felt more believable as a listener. Tom Waits said something about that once which I always tried to follow: he likes song in which they tell the location, where there’s a place to eat, what the waitress looks like, if the cars parked out front have rusty mufflers, stuff along those lines. Even Action Bronson right now only raps in specifics – the color of his sneaker, the ’90s baseball player he looks like, what kind of sauce he puts on exotic foods. Sometimes it takes longer to write like that, but it also puts you closer into the mind of the author like what the hell have they seen or experienced to jot down stuff like that?
[Small Professor]: Usually the inspiration I get from TV and films affects my music in the literal sense, in the form of sampling vocal clips and soundtracks. However, for Good Luck With That, I certainly approached things in a movie scoring manner. Sometimes rap music where the lyrics and the beat(s) don’t match up mood-wise can be interesting in a starkly contrasting way, but I prefer to try to match the vibe of whoever I’m working with.

Zilla Rocca; You write very vivid stories with a keen attention to detail, especially on tracks like Cold Ten Thousand and Dock Street Suspicions. They remind me of the work of a range of different writers, from the noir of Raymond Chandler, to the gritty street crime of novels by George Pelecanos and Richard Price, to graphic novels by Frank Miller. Who would you say are your biggest influences as a writer?
As a writer, it’s all of those guys you listed, plus Elmore Leonard, James Ellroy, David Goodis, Ed Brubaker, Megan Abbott. George Anastasia was a legendary crime reporter in Philly who I read heavily. Richard Stark. Lawrence Block. Warren Ellis who I reference on the album, he’s major. I read comics based on the author, not the artist, so I’m into visual mediums with great voices. I get a lot of lines from reading these people, some I jot down and use for bars and hooks, or some that literally make me want to rap as soon as I finish reading them.

Do you see yourself in the future focusing more on creative fiction, perhaps becoming a novelist?
Someone once mentioned that to me 4-5 years ago as a possible avenue. It feels overwhelming to think about, but I never entirely rule it out. I just don’t have any ideas that I think are good enough yet. I’ve made so many albums and EPs the past 10-12 years, I feel like each one was grooming me to the process of a book someday. Because it takes you about a year to write an album. Indie guys like J-Zone and Blueprint have published awesome books based on their careers, and I think I could do something like that because I’m older with a lot of wisdom and hilarious bits of failure and banal trivia to share in my rap journey.
It would be wrong to say that storytelling in hip-hop is back – it honestly never left. But there has definitely been a resurgence recently. A good example would be an artist like Ka, but also often in the work of emcees like Jonwayne, Homeboy Sandman, Your Old Droog and more. Obvious examples like Slick Rick, DOOM and Ghostface Killah aside, who do you think does this kind of rap song well?
I said it before, but I think Action Bronson gets overshadowed as a storyteller because his persona isn’t built around that, but he’s heavily inspired by Kool G Rap who is a masterful storyteller as well. Same thing with my buddies Billy Woods and Elucid – they touch on worlds so far out of my realm of life experience and it’s thrilling. I remember hanging out with them a couple years ago in New York and thinking to myself “I’m getting drunk with two of the most talented artists in the world who couldn’t be more opposite than me in every single way, all because we decided to rap at some point as young men.” I think Kanye is a great storyteller too because he’s good at being brief and to the point, which is incredibly difficult. This song White Dress he did, I still get goosebumps. Same with Big Brother. He’s the best in the business when writing about relationships and the honestly awful shit men think and do. Aesop Rock – fuck man. From No Regrets to Ruby 81 and Blood Sandwich, he’s made me want to quit multiple times the past 15 years. Danny Brown is slowly getting there, as is the homie Vic Spencer. It’s not an easily acquired skill.

Small Professor; You can tell by listening to the new album that it was an in-person collaboration – helped by you and Zilla Rocca living close to each other – rather than a via email project. As a producer, how important is it for you to create face-to-face in the studio?
I’m certainly glad that it sounds like it was an in-person collaboration, but not only was the album mostly done via email/Dropbox, I was given ZR’s raw vocals to build around rather than sending him beats to write to. I’ve always wanted to do an official project this way after spending a few of my formative years creating and releasing remix projects; I feel like while creating rap songs traditionally can be fulfilling, I’m better at matching up words with sounds that fit. Generally speaking, I don’t spend much time working with anyone face-to-face. I do music on my own, usually after a hard day’s work or when my children are ignoring me.
When working with someone who writes as vividly as Zilla Rocca, do you hear the lyrics first and then create a beat around them, or create a selection of tracks for Zilla to then chose from? What’s the process?
As previously stated, Good Luck With That was me creating beats around Zilla’s lyrics, but our also-recently-released project, Take What’s Coming, features ZR rapping to beats I sent him in the 1-2 months prior to its debut. Every once in a while, I’ll make an instrumental and be like “this is a Zilla/Curly Castro/PremRock jawn”, but that is mostly random and unexpected. I generally just try to create interesting things that can either be the backdrop for a new song or stand on its own 7 feet.

Producers like J Dilla, DJ Shadow and Pete Rock are credited with making full-length instrumental hip-hop projects a viable product, but Dilla himself often said how he always made tapes to sell the beats to artists, and not necessary to be seen as albums in their own right. How do you see your ‘Jawns’ projects – standalone albums, a way for emcees to audition your beats, or a bit of both?
I’ve always considered my Bandcamp releases as unofficial albums, or the rap beat version of a mixtape. Sometimes, such as in the case of Elderly Jawns or the Mixed Jawns mini-series, they can simply be glorified (and organized) collections of beat sketches. Sometimes, such as in the case of Chicago Jawns or the Nasty Jawns mini-series, they can be conceptual and/or theme-based in nature. It’s all really just an avenue where I can release what I’ve been working on fairly recently at anytime I want.

Beatmakers like RJD2 and Oddisee have been able to open up new revenue streams by making music with a view to being licensed for commercials, video games, TV and movies. Is that something you’d like to get into?
I’ve always had this idea to do a score for No Country For Old Men just for practicing purposes, to see what it would feel like to tackle a movie soundtrack. Guys like John Williams and Bernard Herrmann always impressed me with their ability to have their own musical voice remain obvious while providing full-length films with an integral dose of personality. Creating music for video games would be a welcome challenge for me, as well. I’m pretty much down for whatever.

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Good Luck With That is out now. Listen below, then go here to buy it. If you are in NYC, also check the album release party, June 9. See flyer below.

Interview: Quelle Chris + album stream

Gingerslim talks to one of the most creative artists in hip-hop and beyond, Quelle Chris.
For those people who may not be familiar with your career to date, can you give us a little breakdown about who you are and what’s brought you to this point?
I started rapping/writing in middle school and producing in high school. Since then I’ve worked alongside many crews, defunct and present in many forms, at varied points. From Soul Tyde (Blackspade, I,Ced , Nato Caliph), Breakfast Club (Wasted Youth, Elzhi, Ta’raach), Bruiser Brigade (Danny Brown, Dopehead), War Media (Pharoahe Monch, Jean Grae), Kilpmode (Suzi Analogue, Mndsgn, Knxwledge, Swarvy), Vibe Music Co (Cavalier, Iman Omari, PUDGE, Fresh Daily, Bae Bro) and almost too many great artists, known and well known, in between and around, for me to possibly name. I liken my music career to the journey of a samurai in a Kurosawa flick, or a driven warrior in a Shaw brothers’ film. Traveling and learning from, working with and aiding others. Forming life long bonds, fighting battles small and large. And hopefully one day becoming a master and giving back to others in the same way many have aided me, up to this point.
How did you first come to work with Mello Music Group?
My album Shotgun and Sleek Rifle caught the attention of Mello. A brother and work partner, Jon Kim, connected the dots and I was looking for the illusion of “security” as a working artist at the time, so it just seemed right. However many years later we’re still fighting the good fight together.

MMG definitely seem to be label dedicated to the artists. What do you think sets them apart from other indy labels?
They have me on their roster. That’s definitely a strong boost in credibility.
Is your creative process fairly linear – you set yourself a goal and work towards it, or is it more spontaneous than that?
Unless I’m being paid for a specific task, or working with someone else towards a specific goal, I usually just let it come as it does. I generally push deadlines to a breaking point and tend to create like it’s a bodily function. Sometimes I gotta let it out, but unless necessary, I try not to force it.
I’ve always rated you as an artist because you genuinely seem to have fun while making your music, which seems to be lacking from a lot of rap. Is that an essential aspect for you? Like if you ever realize you’re not having fun, you’ll know its time to quit?
If I was younger I think my answer would be yes, but I can’t see that happening. It’s simply a part of what I am. And maybe if I felt I genuinely disliked what I was making I would stop, but I don’t see that happening either. What I seek these days is a stress free creative zone, both mentally and physically. As long as the money and home are okay, I will have as much fun with music as I possibly can. Plus I have my hands in so many arts, visual arts in many mediums, producing for myself and others, writing for stage and screen, singing and so on that if I ever need a break from rapping I have many ways to keep that part of myself active. So if you ever don’t hear me rapping, just know I probably have my foot in the game in some form or another.
You also always seem to make the music that you would want to hear. Has that always been your philosophy, or are some projects embarked upon with the intention of focusing on a particular group of people, or gaining a certain audience’s attention?
When I first started it was more about emulating and impressing others, seeking that validation, searching for my own creative voice. But I always loved finding something new and my interests and tastes were all over the place. I was more of a fan then than now. Now I’m more of an artist than a fan. So my artist side feels obligated to continue to provide my fan side and others with those moments of “damn” that made me want to start and continued to push me to dig deeper. Those moments when you hear something new. Good or bad. Those moments when you hear a new voice, delivery, flip, emotion and so on. If anything the group I’m focusing on are people who like variety in their musical diet. My menu changes from season to season, but what I serve is always delicious.
You seem to be sitting on an endless amount of unreleased material; are you one of these artists that always feels like he has to be creating in some way?
I love creating things, but I could go for a vacation or two or three. I dig days when I don’t have to think about anything. Being a professional artist means you are almost always at work.
One of my favourite tracks of yours is SLSBS with Metabeats. How did you guys end up working together?
We did that a while ago. I dare say a year or more before it came out, if I correctly recall recording it in San Francisco. Plus the bounce I used on it. I feel certain deliveries of mine are like time stamps. I don’t remember exactly how it came to be, but definitely dig that song heavy.

You’ve been involved with a few groups, crews and collaborations over the years, but if you could pick your own supergroup who would it be?
I’m looking forward to finishing a new Crown Nation album with Denmark Vessey and my brother Mosel. I’m already in my super group. I’m sure it will have a stunning cast of features though. So it’ll kill two questions with one stone.
Do you think the backlash against the XXL freshmen class and in particular so-called mumble rap has been justified? You strike me as the sort of cat who appreciates anyone trying to make their mark, however they go about doing it.
Yeah. I enjoy a decent amount of the new cats and study their patterns and styles. I love rapping. So as much as I can tend to be “bitter old rapper guy”, I just love the art and evolution of rhyme & rhythm too much. There’s some that don’t deserve the backlash, but then there’s a billion that are just plain terrible or just remake and imitate. Also I really can’t fuck with the whole “I’m not a rapper” thing. It’s just such a cop out. You can be an artist too, but if you’re rapping then just admit you’re a rapper too. If we don’t hold on to our baby, good or bad, we open the door for others to decide the future of Hip-Hop/Rap music for us. So maybe me and “Lil whatever savage god lord” don’t need to make music together, but I think bridges or communication should be left open and not burned, because maybe one day people will forget that hip hop was ours. Like has happened with so many other cultural contributions.
What can we expect from you in 2017?
Collaborations with the usual suspects and a few surprises I’m sure ya’ll will love. That’s my Trump answer: “You’re gonna love it”. More production. I’m also still a part of The Show Show with Jean Grae, which is a monthly live talk show at Union Hall in Brooklyn. I’m looking forward to continuing to help make it bigger and better. I’m also working on a few comic books and a follow up to last year’s digital book Goodnight Courtney. I usually don’t take time to make visual art unless it’s time to make album art or videos, so looking forward to getting back into it along with making music, etc. Maybe I’ll go 40 times platinum and move to an island for the rest of the year. We’ll see.
Any final words or shout outs?
Buy music. Buy hip-hop. Support and share hip-hop with those you love, those who are like minded and even those who don’t understand, or will hate it. BUY MUSIC. Buy mainstream. Definitely buy underground and local. But of course if you honestly can’t buy, then share at every moment you can. It’s the circle of life. The more people support, the more we can get out on the road, make more music, make more physicals etc. Support what you love. Not just from afar, but actively and with pride cause the folks that support the bullshit don’t do it quietly. Why should we?
Being You Is Great, I Wish I Could Be You More Often by Quelle Chris is out now on Mello Music Group. Stream and watch the video for Birthdaze below.

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Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best.

Follow Grown Up Rap on Twitter.

The Making of J Dilla’s ‘The Diary’ (documentary)

Nicely done short documentary about the recent, long-time-coming The Diary album from J Dilla, featuring rare clips of the great man himself, plus interviews with those involved.

Interview: Alaska (Words Hurt, Hangar 18)

Words Hurt just released their debut album, Fuck That Pretty Boy Shit , but we’re a long way from the start of rapper Alaska’s rap career. Gingerslim caught up with him to find out about his musical ventures past, present and future, as well as some insights into his thoughts on the current state of hip-hop.

For those people who aren’t that familiar with you or your music, can you enlighten us a bit on your background?

My name is Tim, I go by the rap name Alaska. I was part of a weird fringe of the 1990s underground scene that developed when a bunch of weird assholes got together to make weird rap music as a collective called The Atoms Family, which spawned my old group Hangar 18, as well as Cannibal Ox and Cryptic One. Hangar 18 eventually dropped a few albums with the indie label Def Jux, home to acts such as Aesop Rock, EL-P, the aforementioned Cannibal Ox, etc.

We toured for a while, lost a lot of money, and eventually called it quits. I then formed a group called The Crack Epidemic with a producer named Kojo Kisseih, we dropped an EP and an LP.

I had a kid, needed to make a lot of changes in my life to make sure I could be a functioning adult who could live up to the responsibility of being a dad, so I walked away from rapping for a while. A few years later when my friend Pawl, who produced the Hangar 18 albums, was working on a documentary about indie rappers who were now pushing 40, I reconnected with some of the old Atoms Family heads and caught the bug again. We put out an album called Sands and this reignited my love for rap music. I had a few failed starts at working on a solo album either due to my material not being good enough, or the producers I was working with falling off the face of the earth. Eventually I met Lang and we just formed Words Hurt. From that, Fuck That Pretty Boy Shit was born.

How did you and Lang end up working together?

Lang and I have never actually met, I am not 100% sure that he is even a real person. I knew him from my days writing at SYFFAL, he submitted some music, some of which I liked quite a bit. Eventually I did a guest appearance on his album Lang Vo Is An Asshole and as a favor I asked him to mix this little mixtape EP I made over Outkast beats. This fucker went and took all the vocals, and added original production to them, making them doper than they had ever been. From there Words Hurt was born. We found a formula that worked for us and ran with it.

Your new album is fueled in part, by an element of despair at the current state of rap culture; what do you feel needs to be done to bring us back from the fuck boy era?

I think if anything it is fuelled by a frustration with American Culture in general. Rap is just part of that. I just fucking hate posers, I always have, and yes I know I am way too fucking old to give a shit about posers, but I do. It’s ingrained in me. I think the current state of rap is awesome, but I also know nothing about the current popular state of rap. That shit is for 16 year olds and 16 year olds have always been suckers who follow trends and do all they can not to stand out. Fuck those assholes. I think our culture as a whole has completely gone that route. There are no true individuals, we are just a gang of tribes who identify solely with what we consume. It’s disgusting. I don’t think we can fix the current state of popular rap until we fix our society. In the meantime though, it is making for some truly awesome underground music. So its a boom for me and my tastes.

What do you think triggered this shift in taste, or is it just part of the cycle of trends?

I think it is natural to an extent. I think teenagers should be repulsed by the shit their parents like and vice versa. We are in a fully fledged generation gap at this point. My hope is that their tastes will evolve and they will move towards more quality younger cats. I think you kind of see it happening already, there is a movement towards something more lasting from younger hip-hop heads, not just people who like rap for driving around to. I also think us older folk need to get the fuck off our high horse and remember what it was like when we were young and totally going against the shit our parents liked. A lot of the shit we liked sucked too and has not aged well at all.

What are the pros and cons of putting music out totally independently vs. through a label?

The pros are that I can do whatever the fuck I want, whenever the fuck I want. I don’t have to tour. I don’t have to pretend to like people who are assholes. I don’t have to worry about being a disappointment to anyone but myself and I can make music without any concerns about what anyone else thinks. I had a bad experience with Hangar 18 and the Sweep The Leg album, where we worried too much about reaching certain markets, trying to make other people happy and making sure we had something that was commercially viable, as opposed to making the record we wanted. Mind you this was all bullshit pressure that we put on ourselves. We were in such a bubble that we created that we thought this was the right way to create; we sort of lost our way and compromised our principles for the idea of commerce. When the album came out and bombed commercially and critically, it was soul crushing. And it wasn’t anyone’s fault but our own. We had a much better version of the album, but we started focusing on the right guest appearance, or the catchy hook to sell to a car company or some shit, and what would work to make people say “hey” at a show.

After that album I made a conscious choice that I was only going to make music that I liked, and only when I had something I needed to get out. Being totally independent allows for that. The only con is that we do not have the mechanisms behind us that we would enjoy if we were on a label, so we have a smaller reach, but I think we are OK with that. We make fringe music for angry weird people, and that is a limited fucking audience. I like that audience because they don’t show up at school functions when I am with my kid, so I don’t have to have awkward conversations about my rap career within earshot of the other parents. I can be anonymous.

Do you feel it’s an advantage having the Def Jux name behind you, or do you feel people have an idea of how you should sound before they’ve even heard your music?

At this point I am not sure. I mean, it has been almost 10 years since the last Hangar 18 album. I think a lot of the people who supported us have aged out of the system and I really have no idea how to reach them. So I don’t know if it helps out. I guess to a certain class of rap fan the name will always help, but it probably does breed expectations that I am not sure I care to give a fuck about. It is a big part of the reason I wanted to have a group name instead of Alaska and Lang Vo or some shit. It kind of wipes the slate clean and allows it to live on its own.

As you mentioned earlier, you hooked up with some of your former Atoms Family members to record Sands a few years back; what prompted the ‘reunion’ and are we likely to hear any more from you guys in the future?

Sands was really a right place, right time kind of project. We were all working on Pawl’s film and Cryptic was doing the score. Pawl asked us to record a song to one of the beats for a companion cassette he was dropping with the film, so Cryptic, Wind and I recorded Sands. From there we just kept recording until we had an album. I would never rule something out. I think doing a full fledged Atoms project with everyone could be super fun and super dope. It would just be a matter of the planets lining up correctly for a few months. I would definitely be game though.

You’re always very receptive to people supporting your work on online platforms, is that a case of not wanting to bite the hand that feeds you?

Nah, I’m not really worried about biting the hand because I don’t make any real money off music, I make music because I love it. So I am not looking for the next big score, or the right Needle Drop review or whatever. I appreciate that people are sharing something and I am assuming they are doing it because they like it. It is really a way to say thank you for the time they took to check out our music. It means a lot to me.

What’s next for Words Hurt and your career in general?

We are finishing up a new summer single right now called Kings of Summer which features Windnbreeze, my old rap partner from Hangar 18 and that has a b-side called Eloise (Hey Young Girl), which was kind of inspired by the Nas song Daughters. I wanted to make a song that was about my kid, but was sort of general enough that it could relate to anyone in a father-daughter relationship. Its about my hopes and dreams for her. We are also in the very early planning stages for our next album, which we will probably start work on once Lang finishes his Reinforced Steel project with Kwam.

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