Our March 2019 playlist includes new hip-hop from Madlib, Oh No, billy woods, Quelle Chris, DJ Muggs, Mach-Hommy, Self Jupiter, Moka Only, Freddie Gibbs, A.G., Ill Bill and many more.
Listen to the playlist below, and then go support the artists with a purchase from wherever you buy your music. Check us on Spotify for more curated playlists.
Few musicians are as wise, spiritual and deep-thinking as Brother Ali, which certainly makes him somewhat of a rarity in the world of hip-hop. The Rhymesayers Entertainment artist recently took time out from his European tour to speak to Gingerslim.
It’s coming up to a couple of years since you released your last album and we got that single last year; is there a new project looming?
There is…
*line goes dead then reconnects*
Sorry I lost you then, man.
Okay, are we back?
Yeah I think so, all I heard you say was “There is”, then the line went dead
Oh well maybe that’s for the best [laughs]. But yeah I started working on a new project and it’s very different from the last project – the way I’m writing it is different, the production is different, really the whole approach is different and so I’m excited about it. I’m not really wanting to say too much right now cos it’s still taking shape, but I hope to have it out by the end of this year.
That’s good to hear, man. Now, you’ve been quite vocal in previous interviews about some of the problems you’ve faced as an American Muslim; I was wondering how noticeable the impact of Trump’s presidency has been from that perspective?
For me personally it hasn’t really changed anything. The security people at the airport always gave me trouble and they still do sometimes, so that hasn’t really changed. I think the differences are for my wife, my daughters and for the community that I’m a part of. You know my ancestry is European and I’m an albino, but I was raised in African American and black culture, so sometimes people are unsure of my racial makeup, but for the most part if I have problems it’s because of the work that I do.
But for black and brown people, and those who small-minded people think look like Muslims, it’s dangerous. I mean not only from the authorities but from regular people who are from the dominant group, you know they’re poor, they’ve been financially oppressed, they’ve been used, but they’ve always been told “oh but you’re white and this is your country”, so pride in America is really pride in their group.
But now they’re losing that hope of whiteness and being an American, so when they say make America great again, what they mean is make white people great again. And then they see black people being proud as a direct threat to them, and also Muslims, you know anyone not completely bowing to them is a direct threat to what they want their life to be about. So it’s really difficult and because the president now is one of them, they feel completely confident acting really horribly – really bad character, really bad manners, being really violent. There’s a video that’s on Facebook of this grown man in a parking lot and he’s just screaming in the face of this black woman who’s pregnant. It’s really bizarre how empowered people are feeling now to be horrible cos they think they’re fighting for their country when they do that.
And how powerful a role do you see music playing in the act of resistance?
Honestly I’m not that impressed with it. I love hip hop music, I feel like I’m a part of the culture, but me being an underground artist who is a little bit of an outsider in certain ways, I’ve always looked at the landscape and wondered what’s the next thing? What should we be doing next and what are we not thinking about? What should we be focusing on? So when I came out in the early 2000’s, the popular narrative at that time was about triumph over adversity, so Jay-Z was leading it and 50 Cent, people like that – I came from nothing and now I’m cool and I’m rich and powerful – and that’s great, that’s a great story cos it’s true and it gives people hope, so I appreciate that.
So I was never against that, I’ve always okay, but what are they not saying? And so I made music about being vulnerable and then in the late 2000’s, I would say 2010, I put an album out and at that time people were celebrating extravagance and being really successful and rich, that was like the Rick Ross time, Watch the Throne, that type of thing. Kanye and Jay-Z were talking about black capitalism and black consumerism as a way out. So then I came out and said look most of us are poor, let’s just start from there. Were not living extravagantly, we’re actually going to tell the truth and we don’t just want to beat the capitalists at their own game. Not that I’m a communist but I’m saying hyper-capitalism, hyper-consumerism, that’s not a win for me – for us to be able to buy more than other people can buy and then say that that’s freedom.
But you’re still stepping on people and people are still suffering, so that you can have more; that goes against the grain. And now that Trump is the president, so many of the artists are now talking about prisons and all this stuff, but to me it just feels really anaemic, man. It’s not powerful to me, most of what’s being talked about. I mean Lowkey has always been talking about this, Akala has always been talking about this, Immortal Technique, Mos Def, you know you have artists who have always been speaking on this stuff. And I like hearing Jay-Z talk about it, I’m a big Jay-Z fan, but I just don’t think it’s really impacting the people.
So what do you think they could be doing, could they be doing more? Do you think it needs an alternative voice?
I don’t spend any time thinking about what I wish other people would do differently, but I really do like a lot of the emerging voices and so that’s really cool. But in terms of all the public political thinkers in America, I probably align most with Dr Cornel West. He’s a Christian and I’m a Muslim, but his idea of justice comes from a loyalty to being moral and there’s a spiritual dimension to being a moral person because the unseen virtues have to be more important to you than anything worldly, including power. So if it’s a pure Marxist idea about power, that basically starts with the same epistemology, the same metaphysics as secular capitalists, that basically say the world is all goods and resources and power to control those goods and resources, that’s what life is. So then we just fight over how to get power over those goods and resources, and that’s what winning is. I’m sorry, but I can’t with that. To me the unseen world of virtue is more important, to me virtue is more important than power. They’re both valid ways of looking at things, but that’s what I believe in. So that’s why when everyone’s making this political music that I already did, now I’m focusing on spirituality, which is not instead of or in lieu of, it’s not a bypass for the political and social reality, but it’s like how am I going to become the type of person that will deny myself material things because it’s the right thing to do.
It’s going to take something spiritual to do that and you’ve got to have the type of heart that can put virtue and other people before yourself. The modern conversation around power and revolutionary power, is not talking about that. Even modern spirituality, kinda like internet spirituality, it’s not about breaking the ego and that’s what real spirituality is about in all the traditions – in Hinduism, in Buddhism, that’s in authentic Christianity, authentic Judaism, indigenous peoples’ religion. It’s like look the human condition is we have beautiful hearts but we have ego. Ego will always command us to take from other people and to oppress other people, the ego is always going to want more, so we have to discipline the ego. But most modern spirituality doesn’t do that and so basically without doing that outer work, or the inner work to get your heart right, if the oppressed people got power now they would just become the new oppressors. And to me that’s not a victory, to most people that’s not a victory, but what’s the road map to be able to live with dignity in a way that is also virtuous? Virtue requires us to deny ourselves things that our ego demands. Like I should be able to have sex with whoever I want, why can’t I just grab a woman and have sex with her? Because that’s rape! Well okay then I have to tell my ego that this woman’s right to freedom of choice and freedom over her body, is more important than my desire, but I’m going to have to discipline my ego to get to that point.
And it’s the same with what’s wrong with consuming gold, if I want gold and it looks good on me? Well then you say what’s gold doing to South Africa, what are diamonds doing to West Africa? So if I had the money to buy gold and it looks good on me and people seem to think it looks good on me, there’s something spiritual that’s going to make me think that those people I’ve never met are more important than how good it feels for me to wear gold. So to me, that’s what my focus is and I can’t say what other people should do, but I listen to my heart and that’s what I believe.
That’s a really good perspective to have though. Now you’ve said before that each of your albums has been the result of the pain, growth and eventual healing that you’ve experienced, and to me your last album sounded like your most joyous one to date, so I was wondering if you feel fully healed now from whatever you went through before?
No, I think it’s always a process and I think that’s one of the things about real, genuine spirituality is that we know it is a never-ending process. But I will say when we’re early on that path, sometimes the narrative that spiritually immature people have is that they were once lost and now they’re found, or they used to damned and now they’re saved, but it doesn’t work like that [laughs]. Once you start going on the path it’s just like anything else, like now does Venus Williams think she’s the greatest she can ever be? No because she’s always going to be working on it until she can’t anymore and it’s the same with anybody who is really dedicated to something. Once you solve one problem, you just move up in problems and you realise there’s a much more nuanced problem that you couldn’t even know about because you weren’t wise enough to see it.
So do you feel like that sort of complacency is a problem elsewhere? Because that’s how I see it in music, I see some people who feel like they’ve achieved everything they can so they get complacent and then their art suffers as a result.
It can be a really traumatic experience to create without fear cos the reality is there is fear. So you do something that is really creative, you pour your heart into it and then people might just ignore it, or they might hate it. And I mean hating it is better than ignoring it honestly, but I know I’ve been through that and then it’s like why did I do all that? I kinda died internally to make this album and now it’s just another one with all the 50 million albums that came out and so I think at a certain point some people are like I’m not going to plunge the depths of my soul again if it’s not going to be received.
So people who have done that in the past, or they’re no longer in the spotlight, it’s really hard work doing that and so the average person isn’t going to keep doing it. I believe that’s a spiritual practice too, even if people don’t think that they’re religious. Like you listen to someone like James Baldwin talk about what it really means to create from a true place – it’s a death. So I think with musicians, maybe they did that once or twice and everyone celebrates them for it, but it’s hard to keep doing it. You know you can make a living off the spiritual war you fought 20 years ago and so you could just keep touring that album, people still like it so you can make a living doing that and honestly I feel like a lot of those people go to Europe, but it’s not fair to Europe and the UK because the artists from over there can’t do that. They gotta keep creating cos they’re basically being ignored on the global stage. How come everybody all over the world doesn’t know Akala, or doesn’t know Lowkey? Everybody should. There’s a million of these artists and I probably don’t even know most of them, but I really think it’s unfair because European people know what real music is. So I think it’s unfair that a lot of old skool hip hop artists just keep going over there and doing the same old songs over and over again. I mean I’m glad they’re making money, people seem to like it, that’s cool but it’s like they’re still living, they’re still learning, they’re still being a human being, what’s going on? We want to hear that, we want to hear what it feels like to be 55 year old and trying to figure out how long you can keep rapping.
Now speaking about Europe, you’re about to touch down over here for your tour. Do you feel any sort of different connection with the fans here, compared to those back home?
I don’t think that they’re different, but when we go round Europe and the UK, or around the world in general, there’s an understanding that our experiences aren’t identical and so like the interviews I do with journalists over there are always the best. Because they’re thinking I don’t really know what this person is about so let me really pay attention and listen to them, where as in the US there is this familiarity that I think can make us a little complacent and can make use feel like yeah I know what you’re about, we’re part of the same group and you’re probably saying the same things that someone else is saying, so it’s just a different level of attention. And artists are driven by a few different motivations, so some of them want control, control of their life and environment, they want to be able to do what they want to do, not what someone else is making them do. Some artists want power and that’s different cos power is the ability to be able to control other people.
Some artists, and it’s true with people too not just artists, some of them just want fame, they just want to be known. It doesn’t matter what they’re known for, it doesn’t matter if it’s true to them or not, they just want a lot of people to know who they are. For me – and again none of these are necessarily good or bad, it’s about what you do with them – fame is the one I respect the least. For me it’s about connecting and it’s about being understood, like I want to genuinely communicate and exchange with people. I want to listen and be listened to, so going to Europe there are smaller crowds than anywhere in the States and I don’t make much money, so the main reason for me wanting to go is because I know that people are listening! [laughs] You know what I mean? And ultimately I’m going to care more about that than making money.
So you’ve got the tour and then you’re working on the album; is there anything else on the horizon?
So my wife and I teach Islamic spirituality at home in Minneapolis, we have a weekly gathering that we do. I basically split my time between writing, recording and performing music on the one hand, then studying and teaching the spiritual path on the other and I’m really fortunate that we live a really simple life. Slug gave me really good advice when I bought my house, he said buy a house that you can afford to keep up even in a slow year, so you’re never a slave to your living expenses. So my family and I live in a small, simple house and I make enough off music so I can do the spirituality thing half the time and I don’t have to worry about getting paid to do that. I don’t have to try get donations or something like that, not at this stage and so it’s a really good life, man. I’m really happy.
Yeah that sounds very fulfilling, man. Well I know we’re running out of time so I’m going to leave it there, but it’s a pleasure to talk to you.
It’s a real pleasure to talk to you too, man.
I’ll be at the Bristol show next week, so maybe I’ll see you then.
Yeah that’d be great, I’d love to say hello to you in person.
Okay, man, well take care.
Thank you, brother, peace.
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Brother Ali is on tour across Europe until the end of March. Follow him on Twitter and Instagram.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Follow him here.
KutMasta Kurt has produced some of the most acclaimed hip-hop albums and 12″ singles since the 90s indy boom. He’s worked with everyone from Dilated Peoples and Planet Asia to the Beastie Boys and Linkin Park, but is mostly renown for his collaborations with Kool Keith. We spoke to him about Dr. Octagon, his label Threshhold Recordings and more. The responses and insight we got were a lot more honest, humorous and candid than we expected. Interview by Matt Horowitz.
[The following has been lightly edited for clarity].
How did you initially get involved in the creation process of Dr. Octagon’s Dr. Octagonecologyst? Did I read that your early demos essentially helped create the whole concept of Dr. Octagon and then got edged out of the album?
For the answer to this question you’ll need to wait for my forthcoming book “My Adventures with Kool Keith” by Kutmasta Kurt.
How did your 2013 Dr. OctoTron 7-inch with Kool Keith & Del The Funky Homosapien come to fruition? Do you have any immediate plans to record and release any more music together?
Del and I were texting in 2012 – he’s a good dude. We were discussing different things and one day he was expressing frustration about working with Fat Toni and Dan [Editor’s Note: We assume Kurt is referring here to producer Dan the Automator]. I said yeah, Keith could tell you a lot about them. He was asking if Keith would want to do a collabo and mentioned how that would fuck-up Dan’s ego. I said yeah that’s true and the two of you together is a dream team type of project that will get some nice attention; let’s do some songs. So that was it, we just did a few songs, dropped a 45 and then Del went back to finish up the second Deltron album and touring with Dan and Keith eventually bent over to take it anally and did Moosebumps which by that time was such a joke of a sequel due to so many previously failed attempts at a follow up. Surprisingly it got all these great reviews, but let’s be honest, the press needs to take Dan’s cock out of their mouths – it was weak. I do give Dan credit for one thing – he found out how to get Keith to perform the lyrics (Keith would always say he couldn’t remember them) – with a teleprompter!
When did Threshold Recordings first acquire their lathe-cutting machine? So far, what note-worthy releases have been cut/recorded using the Neumann VMS-70?
I’d been directing and later assisting the cutting of my own stuff for a while and started cutting others since mid 2000’s. I obtained a lathe that needed to be re-built and that was finally completed in 2013. I’ve been doing projects for friends labels and random stuff, most noteworthy would prob be my own projects as I haven’t really done anything too high profile, but perhaps one day after I get better known and sharpen my skills further.
Did Threshold Recordings have some sort of involvement in recording Zach de la Rocha’s long-rumored solo material. Any idea if it included material produced by Questlove, El-P, or Nine Inch Nails’ Trent Reznor?
I wasn’t involved, haven’t seen Zach since the big day out tour back in the days, but would be cool to link with him again sometime.
At one point in time, you were “Grand Royale’s In-house Remixer,” correct? Now, what exactly did that entail, in regards to your direct relationship with The Beasties?
That was just a running joke since I did so many remixes for the label and was friendly with a few of the staff. Mike D used to call me from time to time for MPC advise so we made that MPC tutorial movie – which is still floating around out there on YouTube.
What are you currently working on recording and releasing on Threshold Recordings in 2019?
I have a unreleased project – songs with Motion Man from the early 90’s that will probably drop in 2019. I also have a comp I’d like to drop, but I’ve been more focused on my farming.
How did you first meet Kool Keith and what initially prompted you to start collaborating and releasing music together?
I was doing long hauls for my cousin’s trucking company (during the farming off season) and Keith was hanging out at this strip club us truckers like to frequent in Hunts Point. We got to be friends and used to smoke crack together and listen to E-40 and Mac Mall records in my cab (I had 2 15” subs). he was telling me he wanted to make a new sound, I played him some of my beats and he was hype to record, so he hitched a ride back west with me. the rest is history!
Of all the projects you’ve recorded with Kool Keith over the years which one was your absolute favorite and why?
Masters of Illusion, cuz he stepped up his style and skills and Motion Man got to show he could go toe to toe with Keith. Plus some of my fav beats I made are featured.
What are a few of your personal favorite KutMasta Kurt projects that you don’t exactly think garnered the initial attention they deserved?
A good example is Dr. Dooom 2. Keith predicted it perfectly on the song mopped up “First thing you gon’ do as a journalist is compare this to the first Dr. Dooom Fuck you!” Another which I executive-produced and mixed but presented is Dopestyle 1231. MC Dopestyle is ill with his and goes toe to toe with all of his guests (even when they try to diss him on his own song). But yeah we just released our first recordings from the 90’s, the MC Blabber demos and it stands up lyrically today. DS 1231 is also how I met Tom c3 who I later connected with Keith for the Project Polaroid collab album, which iMHO is one of Keith’s most cohesive works while Tom’s beats were mad saiko, and the last one I’d mention is Motion Man’s Pablito’s Way album.
How did your latest project with Kool Keith, Your Mom Is My Wife EP, come to fruition? These tracks were originally recorded in-between Sex Style and Dr. Dooom, correct?
Yes, originally recorded after the Sex Style sessions and before the Dr. Dooom sessions. It came to fruition when I was playing some of the tracks to Keith and he was bugging out remembering them and said, “hey, why don’t we release these now?” Chino XL wouldn’t give us his permission to include a collabo track that we really wanted to include. I think he takes himself too seriously. Keith and I view lyrics as comedy. Like Eddie Murphy and his Mister T “come her boy and fuck me up the ass” routine is just super funny, and Mister T never shot Eddie over that. But for some reason rappers lyrics can’t be viewed in a similar way and some people get all butt-hurt about ‘em and wanna kill. That’s some dumb shit, no doubt. Hopefully one day Chino changes his mind, but for now remains a private/personal track, only Keith and I can laugh at.
It seems like, these days, most producers have acquired a Prince-sized “vault” or digital archives full of unreleased material. If you could put together your own compilation of as-yet-unreleased material, what type of gems might be included within?
My vault is not Prince-sized by any means, but I do have a lot of dope unreleased material with Motion Man and a small amount of Keith tracks. There’s this one song with Motion Man and Evidence from Dilated Peoples that is quirky, and a track with Raph Boogie (from Australia) who made that producer photo book “Behind the Beat” that I’m featured in.
How exactly, in your opinion, was Kool Keith’s Dr. Dooom 2 orchestrated in direct response to OCD International’s widely-lauded 2006 Dr. Octagonecologyst follow-up, The Return of Dr. Octagon?
It was in direct response because we had booking agents getting us on tours like the big day out in Australia/New Zealand and other big festivals but did not enjoy performing those tracks. So we switched the focus of our touring to be Dr. Dooom vs. Dr. Octagon in 2009 which culminated in Keith’s first time touring in japan. As we’ve gone on record a few times, that old album was so far out of pocket to what Dr. Octagon was and very pop and EDM sounding. They could have called it something else, but the label and producers were trying to capitalize on that name. FAIL!
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Follow KutMaster Kurt and Threshold Recordings on Twitter.
Matt Horowitz has been a hip-hop fan ever since he first heard Wu-Tang Clan’s Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) back in the mid-90’s, which positively or negatively changed his life ever since, depending on who you ask. He single-handedly runs online music publication The Witzard, and has been fortunate enough to interview Eothen ‘Egon’ Alapatt, Guilty Simpson, Ice-T and Mr. X, Dan Ubick, Career Crooks’ Zilla Rocca & Small Professor, Cut Chemist, and J-Zone, amongst countless others. He enjoys writing about and listening to hip-hop, Punk/Hardcore, and Indie Rock on vinyl with his lovely wife, while drinking craft beer, red wine, or iced coffee. To paraphrase both Darko The Super and the Beastie Boys: “Already Dead fans, they want more of this… I’m a Witzard like my man Matt Horowitz!”. Follow Matt here.
86 Witness is a deeply personal album for producer Small Professor. He and Sean Price were already working on the project before P’s death in 2015, making this a genuine Sean Price album, not something stitched together from disparate, archived sound files. Its a worthy tribute to one of the sharpest writers in music, and a fine addition to the catalogs of both artists. We recently spoke to Small Pro about how the album came together.
The album wasn’t really that long in the making…most of it was done in 2015 before P passed away, and a few features and bells and whistles were added after his passing up through the end of 2016. It’s just been a very long time coming.
How was it put together? Did you get to work with P in the studio before he passed, or have you had to work through vocals and construct it piece by piece?
The album was constructed mainly through the internet – sending verses and beats back and forth to P’s engineer. I’d send beats, he’d send back a rough demo, and I’d do additional changes once I got his vocals…that’s how the whole album was created.
There must be a certain amount of pressure that comes with producing an artist posthumously and making sure you do justice to their legacy?
I definitely felt a little pressure but this was a bit different than your usual posthumous release because I knew P thought what we had done so far was quality, so I felt like if it was good enough for him, I’d be ok with however it was received upon its release.
The album has 1986 as a running theme. How did that concept come about?
The 1986 theme was accidental at first… Matt Diamond (Coalmine Records, 86 Witness Executive Producer) and I started noticing the year popping up via references in P’s rhymes, and so we started to add our own 1986 ideas into the mix, including the title.
Sean’s widow Bernadette has been very hands-on in making sure her husband’s music is respected. Did 86 Witness get her blessing?
86 Witness was released as a partnership between Coalmine Records and Duck Down Music – the latter of which Bernadette has worked closely with since P’s passing, so her blessing was received.
Lastly, what are some of your favorite personal memories of working with P?
My favorite memories of working with P were our few phone calls, where we pretty much just talked about rap and our kids. Our relationship was mainly a musical one, so the most thrilling thing was getting new P verses in my email that only two other people in the world had heard to date. He also almost snapped at me once because I switched his verses around without his permission, but he liked the end result so much it didn’t matter [laughs].
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86 Witness is out now. Purchase here. Follow Small Pro on Twitter. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
Grown Up Rap’s first monthly playlist of 2019 highlights what a great start to the year its been for quality hip-hop, featuring new music from Conway, Blockhead, Sean Price, Pharoahe Monch, Nolan The Ninja, Smif-N-Wessun and more. Listen to the playlist below, and then go support the artists with a purchase from wherever you buy your music. Check us on Spotify for more curated playlists.
Necessity really. No body expressed much interest in getting behind my solo stuff after Def Jux and I wanted to keep releasing my music so I kind of had to release it myself.
It has always been sort of more of a collage with me, I tend to vary the way I approach each song individually. It would be hard to summarize an overall process or theory as much as it being whatever works for whatever notes I have written down and what fits rapping wise, that is usually most important to how I make beats. It’s one of the pluses of making your own beats.
You have previously mentioned within our emailed conversations that Defriender was close to not being released at all. Would you mind briefly getting into some of the specific reasons and circumstances why?
Because I’m older and have had some real bad experiences in the business, and I literally do not give a fuck about being the biggest turd in the cesspool anymore. The craft of rap music is what is and has always been the most important thing to me, making it public was… for a long time but not so much anymore. My focus has sort of done a 360. And that is not to be taken out of context or as to say I don’t want to share it with anyone. It’s just I don’t focus on that 100% anymore.
Dibbs is doing some amazing shit with Circuit Bending these days and I love it, so it was only right to ask him for the heat since he did the cuts for the song already.
I don’t really think it does, but that wasn’t the goal. I wanted him (and every other artist I’ve ever worked with) to interpret a series of basic ideas I gave them. I’ve always reached out to artists I’ve already been a fan of for my cover art, from Dan Lang, to Remi “Rough”, to Dave Correia because of those specific people’s existing artistic approach and style, I want them to do them basically.
I’m always curious as to how featured artists and associates get involved in artist’s projects. How did you decide to recruit Mr. Dibbs for cuts and scratches throughout Defriender and Milk Gold with vocal assists on “All The Drugs (Do Nothing)” & “JJ SAD?”
I always wanted to work with Dibbs, he’s been a favorite of mine for years and we share a certain appreciation of raw sounding music. I’m glad he was down. Milk has a super unique, sultry voice, I needed that for both of those and luckily she agreed.
Just like the producers she’s writing on, Paris-based writer, Madeleine Byrne seeks out artists, forgotten, overlooked or not given the attention they deserve to work out their particular brand of magic and express it in words.
Grown Up Rap is happy to announce we’ll be publishing some of her writing on hip-hop – past and present – as part of an occasional series of articles, starting with Damu the Fudgemunk’s The High Light Zone, the 12-minute plus instrumental from the Washington DC, Redefinition Records owner’s album he likened to watching a movie, Vignettes.
We’re huge fans of Damu at Grown Up Rap (read our interview with him and Jason Moore, aka Raw Poetic, here) – a sentiment more than shared by Madeleine as you’ll see.
The High Light Zone by Damu the Fudgemunk (Vignettes, Redefinition Records, 2017). First published at https://www.madeleinebyrne.com/ July 01, 2017.
Extravagant, outlandish claim alert: this track, The High Light Zone from DC-based producer, Damu the Fudgemunk’s two-hour opus, Vignettes might be one of the best pieces of music, Madeleine Byrne writes, in any genre released in 2017.
If you think of hip-hop production as the assemblage of sonic elements, where the skill comes via the construction and use of contrast, Damu the Fudgemunk’s The High Light Zone goes against such easy categorisation. This music sounds like its flying, pure movement – to stop, start, stop and start again. And has a stunning drum sound, a killer beat.
When researching this piece, I had one key question to answer, one puzzle to solve: was this music sample-based, live instrumentation, a mix of both? I contacted Redefinition Records – the label co-founded by Damu the Fudgemunk (the artist known to his classical musician parents as Earl Davis). I asked my friends; one thought it’d be sample-based, another said the opposite, or that it was made up of live instrumentation sampled and spliced and found a clip posted on Twitter by the flutist, Seb Zillner as back-up for his hunch that showed him recording a part for the record’s track Solitary Refinement.
But then my trying to ‘work it out’ runs counter against the experience of listening to this music, which encapsulates such energy that it leaves you feeling transcendent, perhaps even breathless at times because of the essential swing of it, the kick of it. And it is this energy that sets it apart.
Many contemporary hip-hop instrumentals mine a similar territory, it often seems to me. Whether they are following the classic prototype set down by the great masters from the 90s, or burrowing into the super-soft fractured melody-driven style so popular today, you can recognise a formula: start with a dramatic, or mood-setting vocal sample (a comedic skit, or something from the news, the voice of a famous artist to set the theme of the music) and combine three, or so elements that appear/re-appear at set intervals. There is nothing wrong with following conventions, but sometimes it can feel a bit stale.
The High Light Zone starts with a sample, but the overall effect of the music is closer to a live jazz performance, or poppy electronic music from the 80s, say the extended remixes, or live performances of English groups, such as New Order – not so much for the sound, but the music’s essential exuberance.
What makes The High Light Zone so interesting though is that even if it might seem to be closer to other genres of music – the duration could be that of a live jazz band performance, the snazzy feel could come direct from disco – the hip-hop foundations are plain to see, mainly via the way Damu the Fudgemunk exposes the beat and then allows the music to stop completely at times.
The final two minutes of the piece where one instrument/or one part comes forward and the others recede: this resembles jazz, but whereas the expectation within that genre would be for a musician to let loose with some kind of solo, or improvisation, it’s controlled/contained. Here we find the direct point of continuum with the hip-hop aesthetic.
This has always been something that has appealed to me in hip-hop production, the way the manipulation of the various elements thwarts our expectations and desires, via the refusal of development and release; the various parts begin, then stop, or are repeated over and over. It’s a kind of anti-music, in essence, punk almost.
This music by 9th Wonder, Let me Talk – released, I think in 2011 – offers up an extreme version of this tendency, aggressively cutting it back at points leaving total silence when you expect the music to build towards its conclusion.
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Paris writer Madeleine Byrne’s interviews and articles on hip-hop have been published at The Wire Magazine, Passion of the Weiss, Okayplayer.com, Ambrosia for Heads and here at Grown Up Rap – we published her interview with Nolan the Ninja earlier this year. Check out her site, madeleinebyrne.com to read more.
Welcome to the November 2018 edition of our monthly playlist series, highlighting much of the best new hip-hop from the last month. This month’s selection includes music from Black Thought, Masta Ace, Slick Rick, Ice Cube, Aesop Rock, Westside Gunn, Action Bronson, Benny and many more. Listen to the playlist below, and then go support the artists with a purchase from wherever you buy your music. Check us on Spotify for more curated playlists.
Rasheed Chappell is back with his first new album in seven years; First Brick. We talked to him about the new project, working with Kenny Dope, and how it feels to be in the studio with some of the greatest hip-hop artists of all time.
[This interview has been lightly edited for clarity].
First Brick is your second project with legendary producer Kenny Dope (the first being 2011’s Future Before Nostalgia). How did your working relationship start?
Kenny and I met through a producer named Maleet – they were both producing for the same label at the time. They hit it off and he decided to play Kenny some of the tracks we were working on. KD liked it, we met up, had a conversation, and a few weeks later we had our first session which included Kenny, Biz Markie on beat box, and myself. That was 2008 I believe, and we’ve been working ever since.
What’s interesting is, Kenny is an icon of House Music, but not as known for producing Hip-Hop. Why is it do you think he gravitated towards you as a Hip-Hop artist?
Kenny’s from the era of the one producer/one emcee combinations, as he’s really just been waiting for a certain type of emcee to come around. All his favorite rappers he told me where Rakim, G Rap, Kane and all the greats. So his words were that until he found an emcee that could give him that feeling, he might do a song or two, but not a full project. I’m a student of the culture and all those that have come before me, so maybe he saw my deep love for the music and the homage I pay to all those that paved the way. I’m also very serious about my craft, I show up, I work…repeat.
And was the process of working with him this time on First Brick different from when you collaborated back in 2011? Have either of your processes evolved or changed since then?
Yes, this is actually, in essence, our third album. We already started a follow up to Future Before Nostalgia with a project titled Brick & Mortar. The process in putting that together has taken longer than expected and this is why we have First Brick, which serves as a trailer to Brick & Mortar. As men we’ve grown and evolved, Kenny is a father now. I’m more seasoned as an artist now, and know the process of putting out an album and how to create a balanced project. So my ear listens more for what’s missing than what’s present.
You’re part of a wave of artists who’ve mastered a new style of street rap, some of which feature on the album (CRIMEAPPLE, Hus Kingpin, Daniel Son). It has the hardcore talk of classic G Rap, and Roc Marciano, but usually with stripped back beats and minimal drums. But Kenny Dope’s drums on First Brick are pretty heavyweight. Which kind of beat do you think suits your style best?
I respect all of the guys mentioned and that kind of music definitely puts you in a vibe, gritty cold weather East Coast Rap, I love it. I don’t think my style is that or has ever been. For me, it’s always been about the drums and the movement. I am a fan of the drum. As far as what style best suits me, I think I can adapt to anything that pulls me to write.
That said, the drums on First Brick also sound like they were played live rather than sampled. Was there much live instrumentation involved?
I don’t want to give away too much of KD’s magic so I’ll just say, he did his thing and there’s always room for live drums, horns, and instrumentation.
Seven years between albums is a lifetime in today’s world where people move on to the next thing way too fast. Why such a long break?
That break wasn’t intentional, we toured in Europe for two years after. We began working on Brick & Mortar and then life started happening. I promise all my supporters that I won’t ever be away that long again.
You’ve had a steady run of features on other projects in between, but does it feel like you almost have to start again from scratch after a seven-year break, to grab people’s attention again?
Yeah I feel like a new artist in that regard, however with all the experience of a veteran. I enjoy it, at heart I’m a competitor, so I want to throw my hat in the ring and have my name mentioned with all the current artists, while creating projects that stand the test of time like the OG’s that came before me.
Even with the seven-year gap, I read how you wanted First Brick to connect to Future Before Nostalgia, but also stand alone as a separate work. Can you elaborate on that?
This is my natural growth, so anyone familiar with Future Before Nostalgia will see that I didn’t sacrifice any of the lyricism or sonics that they appreciated on that album. However, you see my evolution in storytelling and progression in our chemistry. If a listener never heard of me before this project, then has a beginning, middle and an end, so it’s a stand-alone project that you can feel and dissect. I write every line as if it’s the only one a person will ever hear, so I’m very conscious of what I want my musically legacy to be.
You’ve worked again on the new project with DJ Scratch, in my opinion someone who doesn’t get quite enough credit for his contribution to Hip-Hop. Tell me about working with him.
Scratch is a genius, period. So working with him is an honor, he just doesn’t hop on any artist project or throw his support or co-sign on anything. EPMD is my cousin Lateef’s favorite group so being in studio with Scratch, Kenny and my cousin Marcus was surreal.
You also have a couple of rhyme icons on First Brick; Lil Fame and O.C. How did they become involved?
O.C. is in my Hip-Hop DNA, no way around it, Word…Life is up there with Illmatic, and Jewelz is as influential and DOPE as any “top five” emcee’s 2nd album. So when he said that the only two new artist that he listens to were Kendrick Lamar and Rasheed Chappell in an interview back in 2012 with HipHopDX, I was humbled and felt a sense of being knighted. Pushed me harder. We met at a Lord Finesse show and been OG/young lion ever since. We’ve discussed doing a project together. Now M.O.P., name a group that’s more live than Fame and Billy?! We had a song that just needed that energy, we reached out and he felt what we were doing, and hopped to the studio to help create this gem.
I’m intrigued to know what a successful album means to you. Not so much financially or units sold, more about the impact and how it resonates. How do you measure that?
For me success is people talking about the project, and touring to bring the live experience to my supporters. There IS money to be made if you have the right plan and proper execution, so fiscal success has been there for us with sales and especially the vinyl. I want those to hear it know that I gave everything I had. If they walk away with that feeling, it’s a success.
What’s up next for you after First Brick?
MORE MUSIC!! That’s my word. A few things in the works, but definitely expect more music…and more frequently!
Any last words or anything you want people to know about the album?
I just want to thank my team, the big homie KD, my team Wil and Dan from foundation DIGITAL FILMS. The amazing artist Wil Swink that created the album artwork. My graphic designer Kat McBride, my social media manager Steve Royster, and my manager DJ Eclipse, as well as all the work Diamond Media 360, has put in. For anyone that would like to support, click below.
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First Brick is out now. Listen below, and purchase here. Follow Rasheed Chappell on Twitter. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
Best known as a member of legendary hip-hop group Jurassic 5, Soup (who also goes by the name Zaakir) has returned with a new album recorded under the name Fullee Love. We recently spoke to him about Free, White & 21, positivity in music, and the obligatory question around the current status of J5.
[This interview has been lightly edited for clarity].
Let’s talk about the new album; Free, White & 21. The title alludes to a phrase used in the 1940s, which you are subverting to relate to now. Can you tell me more about the concept?
The concept (for me) was just being able to go in a different direction without second-guessing the move. The phrase was just that “I’m free, I’m white and I can do anything.” I wanted to have that type of freedom when it came to this. So instead of following what you think I should be doing, I’m doing me and I’ma make u follow and get on board.
The album is also incredibly upbeat and positive, both in the lyrics and music. I found this inspiring, especially considering what you’ve been through in the year’s since J5 stopped making music (near-homelessness, returning to a regular job).
I’m working a regular job right now, and I’m dead ass! I’m waiting on my Geoffrey Owens moment as we speak. I wasn’t intentionally going for an upbeat/positive project, it just wrote itself, to be honest. But if it makes folks feel that way, that’s dope! Just cause my shit ain’t sharp (right now), doesn’t mean I’ma burn the house down (after hardship comes ease) shit just taking long [laughs].
Most Hip-Hop heads know you as Zaakir or Soup, but you’ve released the new album under the name Fullee Love. Does using a different name allow you to explore a different side of your creativity, and a new persona?
Most definitely! Many have done it before. It takes the focus off of expectations, even tho I still hear “It ain’t what I expected,” and I’m like “Good cause your ass shouldn’t be expecting.” People are something else, they get pissed when you wanna grow and go a different route, but want you to understand when they’ve moved on from you to something new.
I read in a previous interview where you said you prefer being in a group, but how being solo also allows you more freedom with no one to answer to. How do you feel now that you’ve cut a full album completely away from J5?
I love it! I wasn’t willing to take the shots back then cause my confidence sucked, so a group made it easier to hide when all hell broke loose [laughs]. Now…I want it all, the praise, the bullshit, the ladies, the wack comments (you name it). And it’s beautiful to not have to compromise on certain things.
I know its a well-worn subject, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask about J5. There’s been tours in recent years, and even an unreleased track that surfaced (2016’s Customer Service). What’s the status of the crew today, and will we ever get new music?
We’ve spoke, but we’ve spoke before, so for now…nah it ain’t looking like it [laughs].
Free, White & 21 sees you working with a sole producer; Nicholas Eaholtz, who is known for his work with The Internet. Your partnership and sound also reminds me of The Foreign Exchange (Phonte and Nicolay). Who inspires you among modern artists working today?
No one and I’m not hating, but I’m older than most, and a lot of the music isn’t for me, so it’s easy for me to continue with what I’ve already been rocking to…the classics. Foreign Exchange is dope, I always dug Phonte.
There’s also an obvious nod to Prince, ‘70s and ‘80s Funk and Soul, including a track titled Nile Rodgers. It must be quite a challenge to make a record that sounds timeless, both old and modern?
Yea, cause you really don’t know what will be considered timeless or not, you just make what feels right and let the chips fall where they may. That’s the stuff that shaped me during my youth (Prince, ‘70s/’80s Funk) so its only natural that’s what I’d wanna bring back.
What’s next for you as a solo artist? More music as Fullee Love, or Soup…?
I told you I’m waiting on that Geoffrey Owens moment [laughs]. More music for sure…I’ma make it first, then see which persona will headline it.
Finally, going back to the positivity on Free, White & 21, it sounds like you’re in a good place right now. Is that fair to say?
Musically I am for sure. I’m no longer worried about the reactions I’m subject to receive. I wish I woulda had this thought process a few years ago, I probably wouldn’t be moonlighting as somebody’s employee [laughs]. But hey…could be worse. Thank you for this moment, I appreciate your time and the questions…Free, White & 21 is out now…peep it!
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Free, White & 21 is out now. Listen below and purchase here. Follow Fullee Love on Twitter and Instagram. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
