As the co-founder of Ruffhouse Records, Chris Schwartz has sold millions of units working with many of the biggest hip-hop artists of the 90s, including Lauryn Hill, Cypress Hill and countless more. His recently-released memoir, Ruffhouse: From the Streets of Philly to the Top of the 90s Hip Hop Charts, lifts the lid on the inner workings of the music business, alongside Chris’ personal stories of working with everyone from Schoolly D and Steady B to Nas and Wyclef Jean. We caught up with him to find out more.
You’ve launched a lot of artists from your hometown of Philly: Schoolly D, giving a young Questlove help early in his career, and later Beanie Sigel. Has it always been important to you to make sure you gave local artists a platform?
I did an interview with Ebro on Hot 97 in NYC and he pointed out something very interesting. He said Philly “incubates” its artists. I thought about that for a minute and the truth is “historically”, in Philly, when it comes to R&B, doo-wop, jazz, soul and hip-hop, there is definitely something in the fabric, a kind of incubation that brings the best of an artist into the public eye. The only artists from Philly between 1986 and 2004 where Schoolly D, Maja Figgas. Every other artist out of the 40 plus were from other cities and this is not because we went looking for them, it was more so because of the success of Schoolly everybody was coming to us. In the new 2019 Ruffnation, the hip-hop scene in Philly has evolved to a point to where we do not need to look very far, and on top of that I absolutely do feel a loyalty to Philly and the city has been good to us on many levels.
I’d like to talk more about Schoolly D. He’s always seemed like a mysterious enigma to me, and I loved the bit in the book about how your first meeting had you knocking on the door of his mother’s house, Schoolly answering in a towel and leaving you out in the cold until he’d finished his shower! I get the sense that story nicely sums up what he was like to work with?
No, actually he was cool as shit! The thing with him was when I met him, I was still fairly new to the game and he was kind of quite and reserved. But the truth is, he is a very animated guy funny and fun to be around. After I started Ruffhouse, he was off touring, doing movie soundtracks for King of New York and Bad Lieutenant, etc. and other projects like the Aqua Teen Hunger Force. We rarely saw each other for a very long time (4-5 years) and our wives had met and became friends and they would come over to go swimming with his son. They ended up buying the house next door to me, our daughters were born the same year, grew up together and graduated high school together so it has been really fabulous. Now I am doing Schoolly’s new album “That N#gg#’s Crazy!” and it was produced in analog using all 1980’s production techniques. I am very proud of it and I will say anybody who liked the first record two records (Schoolly D and Saturday Night! – The Album) will love this record because it is the BEST ALBUM he has made since!
Something I noticed looking at the incredible number of artists you worked with is how many of them later suffered tragedy and heartache: Chris Kelly dying young from a drug overdose, the drama before and surrounding Tim Dog’s death, Beanie Sigel going to prison just after This Time came out, the fate of Steady B and Cool C. It feels like a lot of these artists suffered from how shitty the music business is, and you talk a lot in the book about how cut-throat and unscrupulous it is. It must have been sad on a personal level to see what became of these people?
It absolutely was sad on so many levels. I can tell you this: signing to a record label, the costs above and beyond the recording advance (which has nothing to do with a labels’ commitment) during the era of physical product was immense and there was sometimes where you just had to cut bait but it is a human endeavor and in human affairs, you must constantly deal with awkward, sad, and sometimes tragic narratives. But we try our best.
The Steady B and Cool C story is a particularly tragic one. What are your thoughts on what happened?
I think they did something incredibly stupid and, what can I say, the “pull of the bling” was the reason. I think they thought they were doing something one time and probably thought they could do it, who knows. It was not a very smart thing to do and I was actually shocked.
You’ve also worked with another artist who is something of a mystery in the same vein as Schoolly D; Kool Keith. I know the release of Black Elvis/Lost In Space wasn’t exactly a smooth process, but in general what was it like working with someone like Keith?
Kool Keith, as you prob saw me tweeting recently, is the unsung creative genius innovator of hip-hop. I had tried to do the Dr Octogan record but I could not really enlist Sony’s support and I was convinced it would be the same audience as the kids who bought Cypress Hill. The Black Elvis/Lost In Space album was basically me wanting to be in business with Keith. Keith had the kid who managed him who, for lack of a better way for me to describe, just rubbed everybody the wrong way. He was a younger kid and he just had this very abrasive attitude and I am not sure why he felt he needed to go this route in his dealings with us at Ruffhouse because we were really laid back but it did cause some issues and the other issue as I recall was centered around label copy, but I could be wrong. I am also going to venture a guess in saying we as a label probably must have overlooked something as well.
Perhaps the most mysterious and reclusive artist of all those you’ve worked with is Lauren Hill. The media has built an image of her as cold, aloof and unreliable. But few seem to know her as deeply as you. As a close friend, what’s the real Lauren Hill like?
Media is TOTALLY WRONG – SHE IS NOT RACIST. She is the most wonderful, incredibly compassionate woman I have ever met and I will say this: all of that BS was because of something a Howard Stern fan had said. Howard repeated back the comment and for some reason, the words were attributed to her.
I’m hesitant to talk too much about Nas, purely because his story has been told so many times before. Does he feel a little like the one that got away though? It feels like you deserved to play a bigger part in his career than you eventually did.
No. We sold the contract to Columbia. He was brought to them first. They passed but said if you want to shop him to Ruffhouse we would support the signing. We signed him, I gave 5 songs to John Shecter and and Dave Mays from the Source, and told Columbia that Nas was going to blow up and they were going to really support him. So Columbia President Don Ienner was in trouble for allowing us to sign and he was in hot water with Tommy Mottola, so we as a favor to Don Ienner allowed Columbia to buy us out of contract. They thought originally the record would fail and if it did they could just absorb the loss through the pipeline revenues they owed us and if it was successful, then they would get half the revenues. But, since it was going to blow up, then they decide they made a mistake.
Someone I do want to talk about is DJ Muggs. You and he go way back to the early years of Cypress Hill, but Muggs is currently having one of the most creative periods of his career, dropping a lot of excellent independent albums with people like Roc Marciano plus several acclaimed underground emcees (Mach-Hommy, Crimeapple, Eto). Have you checked much of this recent output?
Yes. Roc Marciano, and also let’s not forget that Cypress Hill’s Black Monday is one of the greatest Cypress Hill records ever. I play it in my car NON stop!
I know there are plans to re-establish Ruffhouse. Considering how different the landscape of the music industry is compared to the 90s, have you had to adjust much or even re-learn what it’s like to run a label in the digital and streaming era?
Ruffnation is the label even though I own the name. It is a completely different landscape and I am dong an unscripted episodic TV show, “Occupational – Follow” which is a way I am looking to establish a market for these artist.
Lastly, as someone who has experienced the industry from many different angles, what are your thoughts on the Universal fire, the cover-up and the way artists have responded?
I am not so sure it was a cover-up, but rather something they chose not to advertise [laughs].
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Ruffhouse: From the Streets of Philly to the Top of the 90s Hip Hop Charts is out now. Purchase here. Follow Chris Schwartz on Twitter. Interview by Grown Up Rap Editor Ben Pedroche.
