Category: Industry

Interview: Shawn Setaro (The Cipher podcast)

SHAWN SETARO

We recently caught up with Shawn Setaro, host of The Cipher podcast, to talk about some of the highlights from 150 episodes, how he chooses his guests, and much more.

For those that haven’t listened before, tell us about The Cipher podcast. How long have you been broadcasting?

The Cipher has been around since 2012. For the first 75 episodes we were called Outside the Lines With Rap Genius and had a slightly different format, but the core of the show has remained the same from the beginning.

What’s the process for choosing who appears on the show? Do you tend to have a wish list and approach them, or do guests sometimes ask to be invited on?

There are as many different ways to end up on the show as there are guests. Sometimes I’ll get approached by a publicist, or by an artist directly. I’ll reach out to a potential guest in person or via Twitter. At times, I’ll contact a publicist who I know is working with someone I’d like to have on the show. I’ll sometimes get suggestions from fans of the show of people they’d like to see. The best situation is when someone appears on the show, loves it, and recommends someone they know who they think should be a guest.

What we like about The Cipher is how the lesser-known guests often turn out to be the most interesting, like the recent episode with Anton Pukshansky. Who has surprised you the most?

Thank you! I loved how the Anton episode turned out as well. As far as surprise, I have to say that Thembisa Mshaka and Lisa Cortés were guests who turned out to have absolutely fascinating lives and careers in ways that I couldn’t possibly have anticipated.

Similarly, there have also been big names that we didn’t expect would have much to say. Do you think an artist like Paul Wall sees the show as a chance to be themselves, and perhaps change some misconceptions about them?

I hope that’s how people view the show! I think that even people who might not see those opportunities before they sit down with us usually realize within the first few minutes that this is a different kind of interview, and take the opportunity to share things they wouldn’t elsewhere.

Who has been the most insightful interviewee, and your personal favorite?

This is a tough one! There have been so many interviews where I learned a ton, and had a great time. As far as personal favorites, I always go back to our very first episode with Jean Grae. To see the way she responded to being asked questions about her music was eye-opening, and let me know that maybe we had something special. Also, our new episode with Fat Joe and Remy Ma is absolutely incredible. To see Fat Joe bouncing around the room talking about BDP, just as excited as he was when he was 17 and first heard The Bridge Is Over, is something I’ll never forget. And nothing will beat hearing Scarface singing Pink Floyd and Kiss tunes.

As far as interviews that were insightful, I always learn a ton from Saul Williams, and our recent episode with Phonte taught me a lot about the craft of rhyming. And I feel like I have a graduate degree in history after talking to Abiodun Oyewole of The Last Poets.

Have there been occasions where you imaged a guest would be really interesting, but they refused to open up?

This happens, but not very frequently. And even when I listen back to the rare interview that felt like it went poorly, it’s usually better than I remember.

Podcasts like The Cipher seem to be created as a hobby, by people who want to share their passion rather than just make money off of it. Would you say that’s accurate?

I can’t speak to what anyone else is doing. I think that most people who put the time and effort into making a good podcast would like to be remunerated in some way, whether they view it as a full-time occupation or not.

There are running costs of course. Is The Cipher self-funded, or is there some backing?

The Cipher is completely independent. I love the fact that I can ask what I want to ask, and not feel like I have to tailor my message to any other outlet’s brand or audience.

Do you manage to get much in the way of listener funding via Patreon?

We get some support, and I am absolutely blown away that people do contribute. I would obviously like more people to sign up, of course!

Does podcasting require much equipment, or is the set up pretty rudimentary?

It depends on your goals. You can make a podcast that sounds good with very minimal equipment. You can also spend a ton of money or record in a professional studio. We have good equipment and the show’s producer Josh Kross is a master at using it.

You are competing for listeners with other podcasts like Combat Jack and Pete Rosenberg [Juan Epstein, with Cipher Sounds], both of whom have been on The Cipher. Are there enough listeners to go round?

I hope so! In all seriousness, I really enjoy The Combat Jack Show and Juan Epstein. All of these shows are very different, despite some obvious surface similarities. I think audiences recognize that, and view us as complementary rather than competitive.

A few artists dabble in their own podcasts, like Ice T, Open Mike Eagle, and occasionally J-Zone and Homeboy Sandman. Do you listen to other hip-hop podcasts, and who do you think does them well?

I listen to some other hip-hop podcasts, though I can’t keep up with all of them! I really like shows by two of our former guests – DJ EFN’s Drink Champs show, which he co-hosts with Noreaga; and A Waste of Time, hosted by It’s The Real. I haven’t checked out Open Mike Eagle’s show yet, though I hear amazing things. I haven’t had time to really dig into Ice T’s show yet, or J-Zone’s. But I’ve read J-Zone’s interviews, which are awesome. I’m sure his show will be as well.

Catch the latest episode of The Cipher here, plus their extensive archive of previous shows. Shawn Setaro photo courtesy of Bill Wadman.

Native Tongues: Accents in UK Hip-hop

KonnyIt might be 2016, but take a trip around the message boards and comments sections and you will still find confused, angry UK rap fans screaming for authenticity in one breath, and then shooting down artists who rap in their native accents, with the next. With labels like Blah, Bad Taste, AssociatedMinds and EatGood coming to the fore in recent years and bringing their regional accents with them, you could be forgiven for thinking that this was never an issue, but the reality is far different. Writer Gingerslim looks back through his own memories of UK hip-hop, and also speaks to a couple of artists, about their own recollections of who paved the way outside London, and what personal struggles they have had to deal with.

I got into hip-hop back in 1994, when I was 14, but my first memory of UK hip-hop was hearing London Posse’s Money Mad in about 1996 (which had been released way back in 1988). At the time I couldn’t believe there were people in this country making the same style of music I had grown to love, and hearing these people rapping in a British accent was an enlightening experience for me.

But that was still a London accent, albeit with a heavy Jamaican twang. It was also pre-internet, so I remained blissfully unaware of the acts up and down the country, who had been trying to make a break with their own accents for years. Crews like Krispy 3 in Chorley, Ruthless Rap Assassins in Manchester, Suspekt in Derby and II Tone Committee in Glasgow, were bringing out records as far back as the late 80s and early 90s, and helped give rise to the Britcore movement, as it became known. This movement was the first time since hip-hop arrived on our shores where we actually had our own identity, and although the critical success of releases like Ruthless’ Killer Album in 1990 and II Tone’s Beings from a Word Struck Surface in 1991, never generated the same response on a commercial scale, the scene was strong enough to have piqued the interest of up and coming MCs from all over the country.

I asked Konny Kon (Broke N English/Microdisiacs/Children of Zeus), who hails from Manchester, about his early memories of UK rap and he said that although a lot of local rappers chose to affect other accents, hearing people come through with the local dialect was his main inspiration:

“In Manchester when people stopped rapping in American accents a lot of them rapped in a ‘London accent’. But after we heard Krispy 3, Ruthless Rap Assassins, MC Buzz Bee and such like, there was really no excuse. I think for me what really opened my eyes, when we started putting out records, were the Nottingham MCs. There was a wave of really nice MCs who had an accent I wasn’t familiar with at all. At first a lot of us laughed but in the end that was the best accent in the UK to rap with.”

That last comment resonated a lot with me because when I first heard rappers from the Midlands and other places outside London, my first reaction was to laugh, because to me it just did not sound ‘right’. I guess I already classed the ‘right’ sound as London lingo and I think that was the problem for a lot of people. However, my view changed quickly when I heard the level these guys were rapping at and also when I came to realise that different accents allowed for the different pronunciation of words, ultimately allowing for lyrical flows to vary greatly, even when the same words were being used. It also heralded the emergence of different slang words from across the country and all of this helped to shape the scene we know and love today. But what about the backlash, if there was one? Were artists being slated for trying to keep it real? I asked Bubber Loui from Bristol crew Aspects for his view.

“I can’t remember ever being held back by our accents, but I do think we may have been pigeon-holed to some extent. We always included a strong sense of humor in the stuff we did and that coupled with what some deem to be a bumpkin accent, doesn’t help you to be viewed seriously.”

I would argue that the Bristol scene and Aspects in particular, were the catalyst for the change in people’s perceptions as to how UK hip-hop should sound, as the West Country is home to some of the heavier regional accents in the country. This is evident in Aspects receiving critical acclaim for their releases, from the likes of Radio One and MTV, despite making their accents even stronger, as Bubber explains:

“Someone recently linked me to a video of a very early show at Ashton Court Festival in around ’97 that me and Ian (El Eye) performed at. What strikes me now looking at the performance, is that I really pushed up my accent in truth. I was so militant about repping the south west I actually emphasized and accentuated what I wanted to be heard.”

That ties in with what Jamie Hombre, head of Bristol’s Hombre Records, had touched on in Peter Webb’s Youth Cultures: Scenes, Subcultures and Tribes book, published in 2007. Peter writes that in the 90s Jamie had recognized the importance of the accent in UK hip-hop and that labels like Hombre had promoted the Bristol accent as a mark of authenticity, ultimately changing people’s attitudes as to how hip-hop should sound in this country.

Now I think we are now in a time when the majority of genuine rap fans understand the importance of being true to your roots on the mic and not settling for an adopted accent, simply to try to break into the charts, like many accuse Iggy Azalea of doing. But even then, it seems to be one rule for one, as Mike Skinner (The Streets) the Birmingham native, sounded like he never set foot in the Midlands in his life. There are arguments which hold weight on both sides of this debate, because as I have found myself from moving round the country, accents are one thing that can subconsciously be adopted by a person, just by getting on well with the people they are conversing with. But then consciously choosing to adopt an accent, to me seems like deception and a definite two fingers up at your heritage. Only they will really know if their affectation was conscious or unconscious though.

For me personally, I welcome all these accents and regional lingos with open arms/ears, because they are a signal that the UK is now at a point where lyrical skill, clarity and strength of production are the key factors in determining what is good hip-hop.

***

Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow and Front Magazine. His main interests in rap are UK hip hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best.

Interview: Cas Metah

CAS METAH

There are few genres of music as cutting edge as hip-hop, with the latest technology, social trends and pop culture references having been rapped about on wax since the beginning. But it is also music that constantly looks back, and definitely the most self-referential. ‘Throwback’ is a term not always used kindly, but it nicely sums up the music of an artist like Cas Metah, who makes hip-hop that takes people back to a time many consider to have been better. Don’t get it twisted though, because this is an artist also at that same cutting edge, straddling both the old and new. We spoke to him about that balance, his recent Old Fashioned album, and the tools available to indy artists in a landscape where selling music is almost impossible. Make sure you keep reading until the end for an exclusive first listen of his new single One Nation Under Fraud.

Your music feels like a throwback to the classic era of hip-hop. Do you get a sense that heads of a certain age are looking for modern hip-hop that takes them back to those times?

Yeah for sure. That’s the era I grew up in, so my music definitely reflects that. As a fan, that’s mostly the sound I like to listen to. I try to stay relevant with who is new and noteworthy too, but I still get really excited when someone from back in the day drops new material.

The Old Fashioned project feels very much like a complete album, rather than a bunch of songs strung together. Was that a conscious decision, to remind people about the power of a properly structured album?

I’m glad you think so! It was definitely a conscious decision. I spent a lot of time making sure it had that vibe. I wanted to showcase my storytelling abilities as well as my punchline abilities, and keep everything sonically in the same range. Having Mista Sinista and EF Cuttin played such a big factor. Their turntablism was the icing on the cohesive cake.

We love how independent artists like you are still getting physical copies of albums pressed up, even on cassette. Is that another throwback decision or something for the collectors?

Both. I’m an old head and a physical collector, so I’ll always do it. In regards to Old Fashioned, the whole concept behind it goes beyond just the throwback sound. Everything from the artwork to the cassette tapes and CD’s was meant to take us older heads back in time for the nostalgia of it. And it gives the younger generation an opportunity to see what they missed. What rapper from the 90’s never dreamed of having their own tape? It’s a must!

How much of a risk is it pressing CDs and vinyl, knowing that you might struggle to sell them all?

It can be a risk, especially if you are ordering in bulk. I still have boxes left from my first project because we simply ordered way more than our demand required at the time. That was 2004, so I’ve learned to stay away from that. For the past decade, I’ve been pressing through a company that does short runs, so there are fewer boxes sitting around. I have a large catalog, so I may have twenty-something projects in stock, but only a few copies of each one.

You seem to be an artist who has definitely embraced Bandcamp. Tell us about the advantages of it to an independent artist?

I love Bandcamp! It’s simple to use and the most artist friendly format I know of. You get paid direct to your PayPal account when you make a sale, as opposed to any other service like iTunes where you have to wait on quarterly statements. Just everything about it is more convenient. The ‘Stats’ feature is pretty cool, and if you have a Pro account the perks are well worth it to me. Not only is it a store where I can sell digital and/or physical copies, T-shirts, whatever, it also doubles as an information hub for my show dates and social media links. It even collects buyers email addresses for me so I can always keep an up to date email newsletter. Every independent artist should use it.

Do you even need a label anymore?

Not really. The key is learning the business for yourself. You can always outsource and hire specific people for jobs like marketing or publicity if you’re willing to finance your own product. If you’ve got the desire, you can learn to handle most tasks yourself. It’s all about building relationships and building your budget while building your brand. I can’t reach the sky if I’m always sitting in the basement. I’m still working with labels from time to time based on long standing relationships with the people behind them. They know my true desire is to be self-sufficient, and they respect it.

Cas Metah’s Old Fashioned album is out now. Listen to the latest single One Nation Under Fraud below.

 

Interview: Eloh Kush

eloh kush

Any fool can make music these days, but getting noticed still takes real talent, and lots of hard work. New Jersey emcee Eloh Kush knows all about that grind. As he prepares for the release of a new project named Angeldus, we spoke to him about life as an independent artist, the state of New Jersey hip-hop and more.

Making music available to everyone takes seconds, thanks to Soundcloud, Bandcamp etc., but standing out from the crowd is still tough. How hard is it to actually get people to listen to your music?

It is a very tedious grind, but also a very fulfilling task, which is part of the journey you make in the process of creativity. In this age of music, where everything is so microwaved, and it seems some of the listeners have short attention spans, you must always have something on deck to share.

Your material is rooted in the independent/underground scene, which in many ways is now more relevant than ever. Can an artist such as yourself actually make a sustainable career out of hip-hop, or would you say a lot of rappers at this level also have day jobs?

I think you’ve got to have multiple streams of income period, so if that means a day job, night job, regardless. Hip-hop most definitely is a lucrative lifestyle if you create your lane. I mean, it’s a culture, and culture is a way of life. Everything is hip-hop that I see in my cipher. To me, the music is the foundation and is vital, yet with music and game licensing and commercial deals, you must network for the net worth!

As fans of authentic hip-hop, we tend to distance ourselves from the mainstream, and gravitate towards artists that seem to share that sentiment. In reality though, is the end goal for an artist like your self still ultimately major fame and fortune?

I wouldn’t necessarily think that fame is for me. Infamy or notoriety, yeah I can deal with that, but to not be able to move around at free will? I am too close to the concrete for that lifestyle. Fortune? Well, of course, as an artist you want to rewarded for your expression, but that financial reward comes second to creativity.

Tell us about the new project, Angeldus.

Angeldus is a collaborative EP from myself and beatsmith Dus, who handles all of the production. It is a very creative piece of art, and listening to it is like a time capsule for me, because I can hear different patterns of thought, or where I was emotionally in my life during the recording and writing. I lost my father during the beginning of the recording process; so I wanted to speak on the beats to express myself, and Dus did an excellent job of creating a vibe where I could be free and un-restricted, release pain, express joy, etc.

Artists like Naughty by Nature, Redman, Lords of the Underground and Artifacts helped put New Jersey on the hip-hop map, but not a whole lot of rap seems to come out of there at the moment. Would you say there’s something of resurgence, thanks to you and others in your circle?

True indeed, but Jersey has always had the some of the biggest artist in the music business – Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, Whitney Houston, Frank Sinatra, and Lauren Hill. I could go on and on. The emcees out here in NJ are talented, and our time is now, yet we have to flush the Willie Lynch mind state and support each other to truly maximize our greatness.

What are you ultimately aiming to achieve with your music?

To be an owner, not a worker, to be able to take care of my loved ones and sustain a healthy existence and lifestyle from music, and create a catalog body of wok that never vanishes, each listener keeping me immortal with the works I leave behind.

Angeldus from Eloh Kush and Dus is set to be released in March. Listen to the latest single here.