Category: Hip-hop

Last month, after a long, long wait, independent hip-hop icon Breeze Brewin finally released his debut solo album, Hindsight. It didn’t disappoint, and has been receiving great feedback from critics and fans alike. Gingerslim recently spoke to Breeze Brewin about the new album and a lot more.

First of all, congratulations on the new album. How does it feel to finally have it out there?

Yeah, it feels great. I’m not going to front and say there wasn’t no apprehension. I wasn’t sure 100% people would dig it cos it’s been a minute, but once it came out, I was like, “It’s out!”, so yeah it feels good, man. This is the first time it’s just been me. Like I’ve got other stuff I’m proud of with Juggaknots and I’ve got other stuff I’m proud of with Prince Paul, and Indelibles… you know, all of that’s great, but it’s just different when it’s you.

I know that you were maybe concerned about putting a solo record out because of the impact you had seen it have on other crews like EPMD and Leader Of The New School, and you were worried it might have the same effect on Juggaknots, is that right?

Yeah, that was definitely a factor, man. When there are groups, in a lot of cases there is going to be a callout on one of the artists, and back then there was definitely that pull on me. But at the end of the day, I felt like I was part of a team and it’s weird to then be like “Yeah cool we’re a team and I’ma just slide off and do whatever I want.” Now that could be awkward with any group, it has been, you’ve seen it documented, but I’m in a family; my group is my brother and my sister. That’s my older brother and my younger sister too, so I’m right in the middle. My dynamic has always been the group, so to extract me from that in some ways felt unnatural. So, it took some soul searching and some long hard discussions, and eventually they were like, “Look whatever you do, we’re going to support you”, but it took a minute to get there. Before that I had been offered some opportunities but I just wasn’t ready for them. So, this is how it came out, years later, and it was worth it. The family is probably stronger than ever because it’s out on our label, so we’re all still working on it, just in different capacities. They’ve given me the space to do what I need to do musically, with absolutely no compromise, as well as the strategy we use for the label, which I feel is also very important. Like I don’t think we’d be on the phone right now, if it wasn’t for their energy and I feel like that helps to keep that team dynamic intact, which feels good.

Yeah definitely, man. Now, the album kicks off with a reference to Bush’s second term and finishes with a pretty withering attack on Trump, which shows the length of time it took to come to fruition. Did your vision for what you wanted the album to be change much over the course of that time?

Well, a lot of it was trial and error, so for three of the songs we had rolled them out early, very limited, just to see how people would react. Either we weren’t ready as artists, or as a label maybe, but people weren’t ready to receive it. So, in the end a lot of those joints were put on ice, a lot were unfinished and a lot were unmixed, but over the course of those years I still had it in my mind that it was gonna amount to something. And you know it’s kinda weird to have that, it’s kind of a weird format, but these are joints that I still felt did a good job telling my tale, my story, in regards to the idea of looking back. A lot of these songs are… they’re stories, but they’re still introspective. There are some songs that are damn near autobiographical, and there’s others that are inspired by an event, then I added more to it, you know? Like “The Uninvited,” if I was writing in a journal and it ended up rhyming, that would be “The Uninvited.” That’s my life, that’s all me; everything I’m talking about in there, that was a situation. Meanwhile something like “Eye Popper”…

[laughs]

…that was inspired [laughs] by a situation with a young lady. I’m not gonna go into detail…

Say no more, it’s fine…

I’m just saying that one was definitely based on a true story! [laughs] So I felt like it was enough of me and regardless of timelines, it told a tale, so you know I was just really careful. There were other joints done in that time that didn’t fit in for that purpose, but the joints on there did.

Yeah, I mean considering it was made over that sort of time period, you’ve done well to keep it cohesive. I’ve heard albums that have been made in similar circumstances and they lose some of that cohesion because of the timescale involved.

Yeah, at the end of the day, it’s definitely me. It’s definitely my feelings, whether it’s frustration, whether it’s some level of disappointment, whether it’s some level of dealing with uncomfortable situations, everything you hear, in some shape or form I have touched.

Okay, so given the timescales and the apprehension and everything else, what made you decide to put it out now?

Honestly it just got to the point where it was like now or never, and I felt like I’d been doing enough collaborations, which is cool but I also felt like it wasn’t really building up my catalogue; in my mind I felt like I hadn’t started my catalogue. And then I saw other dudes doing it, like those Black Thought releases, those were inspirational. They’re the legendary Roots crew you know what I mean, but I’ve got a Black Thought single from the early 2000’s, the import with DJ Krush. I can relate to that cos you’re attached to this unit, you’re well respected and you have your role, but then at some point I saw him kinda just do his thing, and I was like why not? You know I’m now in my mid-forties and I wouldn’t mind putting out three or four more. I’ve already got an EP on deck solely produced by my man Sebb Bash, so like I don’t want to stop now, you know? Now that don’t mean that I’m not going to work on another Juggaknots project, but right now I’m definitely trying to make up for some lost time. And honestly just with the type of time it is, there’s so much to say and with the way I approach things, with the storytelling, I think that may have had something with the way the album was received because other people are kinda moving away from that, but I think it’s just such an important component of the art form.

Oh definitely, man, it’s an essential part for me. Now, obviously being an educator became your main focus at one point, but you’ve still been doing features over the years as you said, so was there ever a point where you considered quitting rap? You strike me as the sort of artist who is always going to be doing bits regardless of whether anyone else hears them.

Yeah, that’s me [laughs]. I’ve got a lot of notebooks and maybe if there’s a month that goes by where I don’t open one of those notebooks, then it’s like what am I doing? But then the day after that month, I’ll be in the bathroom and four bars will come. So, I write them down and then I’ve got four bars all over the place. Then after a while you start to see commonalities between them, or even contrasts between them, and then it’s like yeah, I’m gonna piece them together. But I have definitely had moments where it’s like it don’t make sense anymore [sighs], but I’m glad I did it, I’m glad I didn’t give in to that. I think at this point now I wanna embrace it more and some days the rhymes are writing themselves, and I don’t know if that’s from years and years of manufacturing these verses, or if it’s a change in philosophy, because I definitely have had that. At some point I started thinking of this phrase, ‘production over perfection’, like that’s what I’m really trying to go with. I have had songs that I think are damn near perfect, I’ve been involved with those songs, and I think for a while it’s nice to say that, to feel that. Hip hop lends itself well to that, we know the songs; they have a feeling to them. But you can’t let that hold you back, those songs weren’t that before you made them, they were just another song, and then once you throw it out, people hear them, they take on a life of their own. Then who knows, maybe one day somebody will be like “Yo this joint really meant something to me”, but I would never have got to that point if it wasn’t for that philosophy.

I’ve always been interested in the idea of using music as a tool for raising political awareness, which I feel like we sort of saw a resurgence of during Trump’s time in office. Do you think hip hop can be used to engage young people in politics? Because I think it should be and it can be, but I also see plenty of fans complaining when their favourite artists bring politics into their music.

Yeah, I don’t understand that when it comes to music. To me music intrinsically, in its DNA, is a protest on some level. All music is protest music, whether it’s protesting about the love you have or don’t have, or you’re protesting because you’re dissatisfied with your station in life; it’s all protest music. So, you know as an artist do what you want, but have a point. If your song has a point, it’s protest, it’s activist, that’s what it should be. Now you know, I talk shit, I enjoy that, I mean that’s practice. That’s putting the stuff together and seeing mechanically how these words work. I’ve got a couple on the album, like “Bumpy Johnson,” but then that’s a song about not becoming a toxic male, it’s like an anti-toxic masculinity song, but I’m trying to go into the path that creates that. Or a joint like “Road Rage” is about trying to figure out how to maintain your cool when dealing with the stresses we all face. So I feel like I wish there was more of that in hip hop. But you know I get it because when it first started, dude had the microphone and he was getting the party poppin’ or whatever, and that’s dope, like I said that’s part of it. But once we ended up with “The Message,” there was no turning back. I feel like that was the blueprint for a whole new lane and I just think, I’m not going to do this and not be in that lane. As a black man, as a teacher, as a father and as a human being, I just feel like I should give you a bit of both. So a bit of fun, bit of talking shit. If you dig that cool, but I’m also going to be doing that whilst I’m building on some shit. I feel to have that tool, that weapon but not to use it? There’s something wrong with that.

No, that’s a good way to look at it, man. “King Oxymoron” is a great track, definitely a personal favourite, and I could tell from the IG video you released beforehand that you obviously had a lot of fun writing it. Are those your favourite sort of tracks, the ones where you just get to do wild shit with words?

I mean, I’m an English teacher [laughs]. At the end of the day there are certain writing devices that are a challenge – oxymorons, irony, paradoxes – these are tricky to even explain. So, I saw that and thought, yeah, I’m gonna do a whole joint about it. I’ma introduce the concept in verse one, then I’m gonna run through it in verse two and three, and I did [laughs]. And it’s like at some point, if you’re stuck teaching oxymorons, verse two and three. Let the students go through them, pick them out, explain which phrases are the oxymorons and discuss it. If I could be a part of that and still make heads bop, it’s a good day [laughs].

Yeah, that’s the dream right there, man.

Teaching is very important to me, that’s what matters.

It actually ties in with my next question, because I remember in your notes you said that modern hip hop connects well with the more progressive side of education, and I was wondering if you could expand on that idea a bit more?

I just think in regards to engaging students, giving students the different opportunities to express themselves with different topics, it’s just dope. A lot of schools today have some form of studio and I think that’s dope. So, I just think it’s a nice option but it’s also an immense resource. Hip hop’s 40 years old now right? You could go through different eras in time and, you know, you think about a song like “Devil’s Advocate,” it’s not the first, there are other songs like that. So, you can go through those songs and you can have discussions, you can have kids analyse stuff in the same way you’re going to analyse Shakespeare, or Baldwin. Like, why not? You can’t tell me you can take some of these Rakim verses and put them next to someone like John Donne, you can’t make connections to do with metaphysical poetry? It’s all there, so why ignore this resource which is accessible, which is differentiated… why ignore it because it’s, I dunno, non-traditional. That’s why something like Kendrick Lamar winning the Pulitzer Prize for Music, that was massive, that gave me hope. I mean I’ve been using hip hop for years, there were even times I almost got in trouble for it, but I’m still gonna use it. I mean one of my favourite lessons of all time is teaching personification through “I Gave You Power” by Nas. When I did that lesson, and we’re talking 15 years ago now, the kids were mesmerised and it just felt like this is what I should be doing. And sometimes the kids bring me stuff. So like after we did “I Gave You Power,” one kid showed me “Nikki” by Logic, the joint about smoking, nicotine. I didn’t know about it and I was like oh shit.

On a related side note, growing up in England I was taught by an army of old white men who never taught me anything about black history. The only time I learned anything about that was through hip hop, it taught me more than 11 years of education in this country did.

Wow.

Yeah, it’s mad, man. So like just from Outkast naming a song “Rosa Parks,” I had no idea who Rosa Parks was at that point, so I went away and looked her up and then progressed to the civil rights movement from there. Or Ice Cube framing The Predator around the murder of Rodney King and the L.A. Riots, I had no understanding about any of that. It opened my eyes to a world that was never acknowledged in my own world.

Well that makes me feel even more empowered to utilise it, because I didn’t think about the exposure aspect. I’m just thinking purely of the raw bones, like concept to concept, but you’re right, the exposure that it lends itself to, in some cases it will show you a whole different world.

Exactly, man, and it was always a lot more engaging than the curriculum I was being taught here. I wish it could have been officially implemented in some way because it would have made things far more interesting.

Yeah man you know as an English teacher, I remember teaching Chaucer’s ‘The Pardoner’s Tale’, and the people in there, they’re grimy, they’re hood dudes. They end up stabbing each other in the back and then to introduce the idea that money is the root of all evil, they find the money at the bottom of a tree? Like come on, man, that shit’s fire. So, attach that and then maybe play “Dance with The Devil” by Immortal Technique, and you know those pieces of work aren’t that different. So, you can do that, you can compare and contrast – grimy / grimy, characteristic / characteristic, then irony at the end / irony at the end. And so, I’m wondering why are we denying the greatness of hip hop as a tool and as a resource? There are reasons why [laughs], like you said old white men vs. not old white men. But if you look at it, art for art, they’re kindred spirits.

Definitely, man, without question. I think I also read that you thought that the full version of yourself hadn’t been available to the world before, because you were always in the company of great people, so do you think this album is the cure for that? Is this the unadulterated Breeze Brewin we’re hearing and seeing now?

Ah yeah honestly, there is no compromise, I got everything I wanted. The only other level to that would have been if I could have produced the whole thing. But then at the end of the day it’s like I’m doing that for my ego, or to make good music? Well at 47 I’m just trying to make good music, I need to be in control of what I can control, my beats ain’t gonna get it done… in fact I did a song, there’s a version of “King Oxymoron” where I did the beat, and cats were like, “yo this is hard”, and I was like, nope not there yet. I did the “Parental Discretion” joint with Marco (Polo), where we talk about parenting, on Port Authority 2, and we traded off; I always loved that beat and he said, “yeah I got you”. That was in and of itself another decision, because there was pushback from other people who liked the other version because they’d got used to it, you know? But I knew that there was a higher level needed for that song and it wasn’t me. So, you know, it can’t really be about the ego, it’s gotta be about the music. And sometimes when you’re compromising and everybody’s an artist, you know it might still be dope but it’s also still a compromise, and there just wasn’t that on this record. It was nice, it was just like, “do what you think is right”. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve worked with great people over the years. With Prince Paul it was like he had the script set up, with the first Juggaknots joint my brother was like, “These are the beats, fill ‘em up”. So, I’m not against that, but it’s just at this stage in my life I just wanted to be sink or swim, hit or miss… that’s gonna be my hit, or my miss.

Well, I’m glad you got there, man. That’s almost it from me, but just before I go, what’s next for you? I know you said you’ve got more things in the pipeline…

I got the joint with my man Sebb Bash, who to me is one of the hardest producers. That’s my dude, we worked at Fat Beats together back in the day.

And is that ready to go?

He’s gotta mix it, but it’s all written and recorded. It’s an EP with like five joints, mostly shit talking, but one with… a topic [laughs]. I’ll just leave it at that for now. It’s unfortunate the topic is needed, but it got addressed. So I’m excited about that and then besides that… there’s a lot of us, man, I’m not the only one. There’s a lot of dudes who came up in our era that I build with. I try to support them, they try to support me; great dudes that you know, that I talk to on a regular basis – Mr Len, J Treds – a lot of people that I still have a great relationship with. I’ve known these dudes for 25 years of doing music and we’re all still doing music, so we’ll see what happens, but I don’t plan on stopping anytime soon.

Well, I’m very glad to hear that, man. That’s it from me but thank you very much for speaking with me and good luck with the rest of the rollout.

Yeah well thank you, man. It’s been great talking to you and I appreciate the consideration.

Always, man. I’ve been a fan of yours for two decades now, so it’s an honour to do this.

Definitely, man. Take care, brother.

And you, man. Peace.

***
Hindsight is out now and you can get it here. Follow Breeze Brewin on Twitter and Instagram. Click here to read our Juggaknots interview from 2018.

Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to The Wire, style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow, Front Magazine and more. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Read his own hip-hop blog and follow him here.