How’s the year treating you so far?
It’s pretty nice, bro, it’s pretty nice. I’ve just been in the crib and when I’m not in the crib, I’ve been out of town, so I’ve just been in my own little world out there. Atlanta’s cool though. Lot of good food, lot of wings.
Is that where you’re based now then?
Yeah, Atlanta.
You were here in Europe before Christmas, with Pink Siifu…
Yeah, at the end of November. When I initially left for that tour, we just got the crib and I hadn’t even had the chance to move in. So basically, when I got off tour I got to experience the crib for the first time, soak that up for a couple of months.
Do you find much difference between playing shows over in Europe compared to performing back home?
I said this a couple of times, but Americans are pretty spoilt. Like sometimes they’ll pass you up because they know they’ll be able to see you again at some point. But out here? They treat me like a unicorn. I can feel the appreciation a lot more, so it’s more rewarding.
And so, does that lead to a different energy when you’re doing shows over here?
I think my performances are probably substantially better. And since touring here, I think I’ve got way better at performing. Every year I get a little better at something, so that was the goal this time. Experience these things for the first time, then come back on my own and do it again, you know?
I read in a different interview where you were talking about perhaps not having the confidence to do solo shows back in the day. Was that something you had to work on, or did it come naturally?
I would say I put work into it because I was doing shows, so I was learning on the job basically. When I first started performing it was always with Henny L.O., every performance I did was with him. So when he moved to Northern Virginia, I was still in Richmond by myself doing shows and shit. So whichever show I did, I would have to break off a piece of myself and just get over that nervousness. So going from that, like having separation anxiety [laughs], to now when it’s just me and a DJ. I don’t even need a hype man now.
But do you still get any of those nerves?
Probably for like the first song, but after that song is over, I’m usually in my bag.
I still get anxiety before doing interviews, even though I’ve done a lot at this point. Then most of the time, if the interview goes well, I don’t remember what we spoke about until it comes to typing it up.
I’m the same way, bro. I’m almost on autopilot or some shit.
Like an out of body type thing.
Yeah, bro. I dunno how I’m doing it. Sometimes we run off of minimal sleep and we just do it, we don’t even know how. Pre-interview shit, pre-performance, pre-anything, it’s like I’m always taking myself through some sort of rodeo. Whatever kind of anxiety I’m going through, I’m always taking myself to some extra place where I don’t need to be, because it hasn’t happened yet.
Yeah, exactly. I was always very good at making myself worry about things that had not happened.
That’s a special talent! To create that drama for yourself, that’s a special talent [laughs].
Yeah, but then when you realise you can do it the other way and create a perfect ending? That’s the key, man.
Yeah, I learned that shit on acid.
Exactly, man! I suffered from anxiety issues a lot, social anxiety in particular virtually ruled my life. I started microdosing with psilocybin, just a little drop every day, and I haven’t felt anxiety like that for two years now. It’s like someone flicked a switch in my head. So, I recommend that to anyone who’s suffering…
Anyone uptight! Either mushrooms or acid. I would probably recommend mushrooms first because it’s a more natural vibe…
Yeah, acid can be a bit intense.
I started out with acid! Baptism by fire, man. That was the first step. Me and Koncept Jack$on we did acid every day for damn near a couple of weeks. I kinda fell off it, but then I discovered shrooms were a little cooler… then I tried DMT one time, that shit was amazing. I didn’t break through, but it was amazing.
Just going back to Henny L.O. and Mutant Academy, because that’s how I first came across your music, I think via the Panama Plus album… Are you guys all from Richmond?
Tuamie is from Atlanta…
Ah okay, so how did you guys first come together?
We found Tuamie on Soundcloud. Koncept put me onto him initially… back in the day Koncept used to steal beats. I remember that first time I heard him was on a stolen Tuamie beat, but I didn’t know who Tuamie was, so I was thinking they worked it out. So, initially it came from what Koncept was doing over those beats and I wanted to meet the dude. But Tuamie wasn’t really that social at the time, so we’d reach out to him and he’d ignore that shit. I think it took about a year, from 2015-2016, for him to find our shit. He found it originally through Ohbliv and then we started working on music. I think the first few songs we made was Grandma’s Spot, Thrasher Tee and Puerto Rican Land Rover [laughs]… I forget why we gave that song that title… and then we were like, let’s make an album.
So why did you call it that?
Puerto Rican Land Rover? I don’t remember, but it’s the same reason we named the intro, Bulletproof Gucci Windshield… it’s weird, it’s out of pocket. Just those three-word titles – Bulletproof Gucci Windshield. It’s like you can almost see it.
And so how did you first get into rap? Was there any influence in your family, or was it something you fell into on your own?
My older brother was rapping as well and he was like the neighbourhood hero to me. He was the average drug dealer kid, but he used to go to the studio sometimes as well. He’d bring the CDs home, play that shit, then it got to the point where I memorised one of his verses and I’d be like, “Damn, I really wanna rap”. I was fascinated by the fact that he could go to the studio and people could mix his vocals and all that shit; I was just intrigued by the process of making music in general.
So I started writing because of him and I thought he would take me to the studio with him, but he never did. So by the third or fourth verse, I quit; so before I was 10, I’d already quit rapping. Then at 13 I found Henny L.O., we was in the same school. We started linking up through music. He had an iPod with a lot fucking music on it, like a whole bunch of 90’s shit on it that I’d heard when I was a kid, but I’d lost touch with because nobody was playing that music around me no more. All it was around that time was Lil Wayne and fucking DJ Khaled, that compilation shit, you know what I mean? But yeah Henny had all that Wu-Tang stuff, all the stuff that I grew up on, so I let him use my PSP and he’d let me use his iPod all day, so I could listen to music in class.
From that we formed our group, then we found all these other people from Soundcloud and just made different relationships with them… like Foisey, and Ewonee, who’s DJing for me right now. All these people we just came across on Soundcloud, so it all just formed from there really, bro.
So was it different for your brother then, for his generation? You said he was older…
Yeah, he’s like 13 years older than me.
So he wouldn’t have had those same sorts of digital opportunities when he was coming up… was it ever serious for him though?
He did though. It wasn’t serious for him, but he was right there at the cusp. He knew people who were linking up with Missy Elliot and shit, so he was right there. He could’ve done something with that shit, but he wasn’t as consistent. The only reason he wasn’t consistent was cos he started having kids and all that life shit. But he’s always been my music spirit; like he tailored my music tastes by playing all that shit around me while we were playing videogames. That’s why whenever I make music, it always comes out with some sort of golden era type shit, but I don’t do it on purpose. It’s just naturally happening that way. And I don’t even listen to that shit like I used to! I listen to a lot of young people music; I like trap music a lot. So my flows stay current, but I’m also stuck in a certain format. Like whether I wanna be or not, that’s just what I naturally make.
So do you think it’d be hard for you to try and do something different? Not that you need to…
I know I don’t need to, but I would like to try. I’m at this point where I’m kinda bored, I just want to make different shit, you know? I wanna have fun making music again and I think that will come with me creating a new style.
That’s why I found it interesting you and Siifu collaborating, because I would probably place you both in different areas of the rap spectrum. You’re quite a bar heavy lyricist and he’s got this experimental, genre-bending thing going on, you know what I mean? But then you sound amazing together and the proof is in the pudding, so has that inspired you to break out and try new things?
Definitely that, and my girlfriend as well. The people that I’m around everyday inspire me to grow and improve on what I created. What I do is something I have been refining since I was a teenager, so it’s just a really super sharp version of what I was when I was a kid. I could change that completely now, but then I’d have to fight my way up a whole new mountain.
Yeah, but then also if you get to a point where your fans are already there, then they’re likely to come with you. That’s the other thing, because I feel like I’m waiting for the point where nobody’s going to be saying, “I’m outta here”. I don’t wanna push no one away yet, I wanna make sure there’s some kind of foundation and then start sprinkling new shit in there. I’m doing that right now. My next album I’m playing around a little more, but it’s still the good old me; I can’t change.
Now just going back to Virginia for a moment, because the state has this rich rap history that we’ve already mentioned. Did that ever have any impact on how you thought you should sound, or the direction your music should take?
My city’s such an interesting case, because nobody really made it from Richmond before. There’s only like three people who have made it and D’Angelo’s not even a fucking rapper, he’s RnB. But it’s D’Angelo, Nickelus F and Skillz. So as far as entertainers go, those are the biggest ones we have. Not that that’s a bad thing. I feel Nickelus is the best rapper from Richmond, bar none. But I feel like we don’t have no superstar. Closest thing we had was like Trey Songz, but he’s from Petersburg which is like 30 minutes from Richmond, so we can’t claim that. Missy Elliot, Timbaland, Pharrell, all those people were from Virginia Beach or Norfolk, which is like an hour and a half away from Richmond. A lot of times people skip over Richmond and they think of those places, so everything in my soul says I have to make Richmond the shit.
Do you feel you have put it on the map now?
Yeeah, I would hope that Richmond is on the map now to the people outside looking in, but it’s still not a household name. I want it to be like Brooklyn, or like Compton. You hear Compton, you immediately respect that artist. We ain’t even from Compton, but we know exactly where the fuck it is! We know where Brooklyn is, Queen, Harlem… there are certain places you get respect just from being from there, but with Richmond they don’t take you seriously. They think it’s all dirt roads and countryside, it sounds dumb to people. People look at us like we’re country but it’s a city just like all the other places, it’s just not as big. It’s real artsy now though…
Yeah? In a good way?
Half and half. It’s gentrified but it also means there’s stuff to do for the creative people. But it’s been going that way since VCU (Virginia Commonwealth University) made it to the Final Four. Like I don’t know what kinda budget they got after they won that game, but yeah Richmond got weird after the Final Four…
How did you and Siifu first connect?
Siifu found my music through Ohbliv; I think it was probably the first song that me and Ohbliv did. He thought I was a 90’s rapper that Ohbliv had flipped. But Ohbliv told him who I was, then he found me on Twitter and ever since we’ve stayed in touch. We had a show in New York – that was the first time I’d seen him in person – and the dude putting on the show didn’t want to pay us, so we had to shake him down. You know how they do donation suggestions? Well he wasn’t trying to split the pot with us, so we took the whole pot. Then we left and the next day we all met up again, split the money between us and ever since then we’ve been cool [laughs].
That’s a good story, man. I like that.
That same day we were putting our names together, like FlySiifu, just playing around and it ended forming what would be the album, just naturally. And we’ve been friends ever since, like 2016 until now. He’s a good dude.
So does that mean we can expect to hear more from you two?
Of course. We tryna – I don’t wanna jinx it – but we tryna put together a TV show. Like a FlySiifu TV show. Before we drop another album, try to create a brand, then we drop the next album.
And so would that be set around a similar concept to the albums?
Yeah, if we can keep the world that we created then we can go anywhere the fuck we want afterwards. But I feel like we should try to figure this TV shit out.
Get that Netflix money.
Hell yeah, that shit would change our lives, bro. That’s gonna put everything in perspective, because then selling records won’t be a problem, going on tours won’t be a problem. We’ll have a whole new audience.
And they’ll be expecting new stuff from you.
Yeah and honestly, I think we should do it before people start wanting it.
I want to touch on the Madlib connection too, because it made me happy to hear him speak so highly of you. How was that for you? Hearing him label you as one of the best out there?
It was weird as hell, but it was also very confirming. Because when I first started making music with Henny, he was playing me all that Madlib shit and J Dilla shit. We would rap over those beats and they’d usually be short as hell, like 45 seconds long or whatever. Those songs are the reason all my songs were so short. I followed that format for a long time, I was just trying to match those one-minute songs. So yeah, it was kinda surreal going full circle, you know? I started out on those loops and now he’s giving me loops to rap on. So, I sort of feel like this was supposed to happen. In my heart of hearts, I’m not fully surprised. But it’s cool to have him as a friend, he gives me good advice.
So is there going to be more coming from you two as well?
Yeah. We trying to situate this EP, before the album. I don’t wanna rush the album, so I want to get an EP just to tide the people over. People are treating it like a myth and he’s getting pissed off about that [laughs] cos everybody’s like, “It’s not happening, where’s the album??!”, and he sees all this. So he’s like, “Man we gotta drop this cos I’m sick of this shit” [laughs].
Do you think that’s because there have been so many projects of his that have been mythologised like that?
Yeah, people like to treat it like it’s not gonna happen and then they weaponise that to try to force us to do things. We have songs sitting for a long time, we’re not just recording things and throwing them out. And it’s not gonna be a one-off situation, me and Madlib are gonna be making music forever. We’re going to be like that gift that keeps giving. Same with Mutant Academy members, he’s really amongst us. He’s a fan of all of us so whatever we’ve got going on, he’s probably going to be there too. Whenever we finish this fucking abum, we gonna make sure there’s a Madlib beat on there.
So, is this Frank album your official debut?
It’s the studio debut. The last album was technically my debut solo. Backyard Boogie was with Ohbliv, Emergency Raps 4 was with Tuamie… so it’s always been me and one producer, or me and one of my friends with a wider range of producers. So the first time that I made an album that I fully curated, going out to get the beats and shit, was At The End of The Day. That was technically my debut, but I would also call it a street album because it wasn’t fully pushed, it wasn’t really promoted. All I made was CDs; I made 100 CDs for that shit and then left it alone. So I would like to call that a street album. This album was the first one with a budget, the first one on Lex, so it feels like a debut studio album. So yeah technically it is the first of its kind, you feel me?
Would you say it’s your most personal to date? It was the title that initially gave me that vibe…
It ain’t even about me, it’s about everybody else [laughs] It’s a really good album, bro. The only reason I’m so weird about talking about it is cos of how old it is. It’s old as fuck. Three years! So it’s cool, I know it’s hard, I know it’s fire…
But do you feel you’ve moved on since then?
I’ve moved the fuck on.
So it’s something you just want to move on from now?
I’m ready for people to absorb it, but also I’m ready for people to here the next shit. The next one is already done, just add maybe one more song then it’s over. At this point, bro, I can’t even sit back and look at what’s happened. I’ve just gotta keep doing it until it makes sense.
With all that in mind, what is next for you? You seem like the sort of guy who won’t be taking too many breaks.
Man, even if I took a break you wouldn’t notice because I got so much in the stash [laughs]. That’s really what keeps me afloat – having a good work ethic and keeping things in the tuck. The next album that’s releasing on Lex is me and Foisey, that’s basically in the can. But I think Lex is going to break it in half into two EPs, so it’ll be like chapter one and chapter two, but then the vinyl will come out with the whole thing. It’s called Skinemax and it’s going to be fire, bro. I’m way more excited about this album, then I have been about any others at this point. FlySiifu created itself and I was excited about that because the idea made so much sense. But this one, the album created itself, I did that shit in like two weeks… it’s a great fucking project. I did everything with one engineer and one producer, it’s the most organised album I ever made. So I’m more worried about that one because that’s my baby; I’m kinda mad that it’s not the first album. THAT should have been my debut.
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Frank by Fly Anakin is out now via Lex Records. Buy and stream it here. Follow Fly Anakin on Twitter and Instagram.
Gingerslim has been a hip-hop fan since 1994 and has written for various blogs and websites since around 2006. During that time he has contributed to The Wire, style43, Think Zebra, Headsknow, Front Magazine and more. His main interests in rap are UK hip-hop and the underground movement in America, with a focus on Rhymesayers Entertainment and the once mighty Def Jux label. He lives in Bristol and has a beard. All other details are sketchy at best. Read his own hip-hop blog and follow him here.