As a member of the group Ugly Duckling, Andy Cooper helped define the sound of the Californian underground hip-hop scene from the late 90s and well into the aughts. He’s also made plenty of music as a solo artist, and his latest album, L.I.S.T.E.N., came out late last year. He recently sat down with Matt Horowitz to discuss that project, his upcoming next album, and that time he had a chance meeting with the late, great Shock G.
Tell us about the concept behind L.I.S.T.E.N. (Lyrical Innovation Supplying The Ear’s Need?)
I wish it was more “complicated” or “artistic” of an idea than the literal definition, but if I have to say something “thoughtful,” I would mention that part of my idea for the title is that today’s world of media is driven by visuals much more than audio, which is understandable [given] the technology available. But for someone who loves the theater of the mind and the magic of music, I would prefer that listeners soak in the sonic soundscape and create their own visuals using their personal sensibilities and imagination. Recorded music, to me, seems much more powerful as an intimate, audio experience than a means to propelling visual images and promoting brands or products.
How does your beat-making process typically work? Walk us through the creation of a track from L.I.S.T.E.N.?
It really depends on whether the approach is sample-based or if I’m trying to come up with original musical ideas. For samples, I usually come across a compelling piece of music and start building drums and other melodic/rhythmic pieces around it. For original music tracks, I almost always start with drums and chords on an electric piano or organ and develop the song from there. The L.I.S.T.E.N. LP was a sample-based project, so I was constantly listening for great loops. On “Fly Tonite,” I was, actually, driving to the studio and listening to the local Jazz radio station when I heard a funky version of an old, Broadway show tune and thought, “I have to flip this!” When I got to the studio, I found the track (which was in 3/4 time,) chopped it up a bit, and combined it with some uptempo drum parts I had previously recorded. When I heard all the parts together, it made me feel like I was flying and I had my theme.
What was DJ Moneyshot’s role on L.I.S.T.E.N.?
Moneyshot is a part of every musical project I take on these days because we’re almost always working on something together (usually, The Allergies) and files are constantly being sent back-and-forth (drum parts, loops, sounds, sound EFX, cuts…) so, it’s hard for me to remember where my stuff ends and his begins. Sometimes, I’ll build up a song and use loads of little parts he shared with me for a The Allergies track but, for whatever reason, we weren’t able to use. But more specifically, on L.I.S.T.E.N., we were half-way through developing the track “Tension Release” for a The Allergies LP, but they decided not to use it, so I snatched it up and completed the song on my own. With “The Man,” Roy [DJ Moneyshot] just played me the song with the main sample (and the “ladies and gentlemen, here’s the man!” bit) and I took it from there. I did all the work, but he supplied the most important element, which deserves “co-production” credit in my opinion. At this point, working with Roy feels as natural and easy as anything else I’ve ever done in music and he seems to bare no resentment when I “steal” from him.
The video for “L.I.S.T.E.N.” is hilarious. How did you come up with the concept?
It was inspired by Covid restrictions and the fact that we couldn’t have multiple people standing near each other. So, we thought we’d try to make a wacky green screen video and The Sesame Street vibe just came out as we were filming people. Daniel is really good at the post-production graphic stuff, so he deserves the credit for the look. All I told anyone in the video to do was “look and act silly” and I’m so thankful that a few people came to help because there was a lot of fear in the air, at the time. It’s not a spectacularly good clip, but it was really nice to get together with the director, Daniel Ruzcko, and others and do something creative in the middle of the storm. Hopefully, I won’t be prosecuted for this admission.
L.I.S.T.E.N. is on the German label Unique Records. How did you link up with them?
It all started back in the early 2000’s when Ugly Duckling played at Henry Storch’s (the Unique label’s late founder) Unique Club in Dusseldorf. We really loved the vibe and played with Henry many more times over the years, always enjoying his enthusiasm for great music of all sorts. When I began creating music as a solo artist, I reached out to him for advice and he was the first person to offer me a release (they put out my debut solo LP, Room to Breathe). Henry died suddenly a few years back and not long after, I reached out to the label to see if they’d be interested in giving it another go with me and, fortunately, they were.
What would you say were some of the biggest similarities and differences between the writing, recording, beat-making, creating, etc. behind L.I.S.T.E.N., and your next upcoming project, Hot Off The Chopping Block?
It goes back to the earlier question where I described creating music that isn’t primarily sample-based. For Hot Off The Chopping Block, my goal was to make funky, classic rap music, but without looped samples as the base sound for the tracks. Taking this approach, I usually find some drums that I like and start playing around with basslines and chord progressions until I hear something funky. After that, I litter the track with little chops of sounds (samples, effects, weird stuff…) to try to give it that magical aura that only samples seem to provide. I’m not sure if I totally captured the sound, but I did my best and it seems to me that some of the songs are really snapping.
What would you say were your greatest sources of inspiration and influence while creating L.I.S.T.E.N. vs. Hot Off The Chopping Block?
Strangely enough, it’s almost always Jazz and Classical music (particularly, 1950-60’s Bebop & Classical composers from the early 20th Century, like Debussy & Satie.) I can’t play or compose anywhere near the level of musicians and writers from those genres, but I’m always trying to let the melodic complexity of music that’s so emotionally challenging seep into my consciousness and, somehow, utilize it for my more simple and funky needs.
What’s the current status of Ugly Duckling? How often do you speak with both Dizzy and Young Einstein these days?
If I’m being honest, there is no status and no future plans. I speak with Einstein semi-regularly and almost never hear from Dustin. I think, we accomplished everything we set out to do together and, at some point, I realized there was nowhere else to go within the concept of our group. I was scared to leave the only band (and production partner in Einstein) that I’d ever had, but I knew that I needed to set out in a different direction, if I was going to find anything new within myself as an artist. And since I left, I’ve been extremely blessed to find constant excitement and inspiration for music. It was like re-discovering childhood laughter and sprinting to the playground.
I know we spoke about this at length privately… but can you share the story of how the cover artwork for Hot Off The Chopping Block was created, please?
The musical concept of the LP was to utilize new, recorded music around chopped up bits of sample to, if possible, find that funky Hip-Hop sound that I love so much. When it came to the cover, I thought, “why not be literal about it?” So, I diced up an old Barbara Streisand record and found a knife. We photographed the whole thing in my [parents’] kitchen. It looks pretty cool to me.
How would you describe your working relationship with The Allergies? Do you guys ever talk about doing a proper collaborative full-length together?
We’re working together constantly and I couldn’t love the boys any more than I do. They are both great guys and we’ve never had a cross word or massive disagreement. I love to rap on their songs, but I also, compose, contribute musical bits, edit sounds… whatever helps them out because I like and respect them so much as people and I enjoy the stuff they do, whether or not I’m involved. We’ve never discussed collaborating more (I’m shocked they have me on as much stuff as they do!) but I’m hoping to get out and do our live show soon because The Allergies’ music really comes alive with an audience.
Will we be getting a Hot Off The Chopping Block accompanying mixtape, similar to what you did with a lot of your other projects?
No, but that’s actually a good idea; I better get to work!
Would you mind recounting your story about meeting Shock G, as recently told on your Instagram page?
Shock G was one of my high school Hip-Hop heroes. His smooth musicality and witty cleverness in combining Rap music with classic Funk, R&B, Pop, Rock and, more than anything else, well-crafted zaniness was incredibly encouraging and inspiring to someone like me, who struggled to connect with Hip-Hop culture, despite loving the music.
With that in mind, one could imagine my excitement in meeting him backstage at a concert I was performing at in the early 2000’s. Shock G was appearing with another band on the bill and before he went on, I approached him with the intention of paying a quick compliment and scattering. But before I could launch into any flattery, he looked at me like I was a clogged toilet and walked away with an extremely hard first step; ouch!
The next evening, we were in another city (on the same tour) finishing up our live set and basking in the sound of low-level audience enthusiasm, a nightly occurrence. But the second I stepped off the stage, I was forcefully corralled into a nearby stairwell by the most enthusiastic and complimentary person I’d ever met. You guessed it: Shock G. Sitting alone with him for a good hour in this odd, echoey setting, he repeatedly told me how incredible our show was and begged me to give him a copy of the latest album. He also regaled me with great Digital Underground/2Pac stories and answered all my questions about his landmark 1990 LP, Sex Packets. At some point, he was called to go and perform, so I headed to the T-shirt booth to hawk merchandise and that was that. I don’t know if he actually had two personalities (Shock G and Humpty Hump) or I had just caught him on a bad day, but whatever the case, I still hardly believe it happened.
Can you tell us a bit more about the release specifics and details related to your latest album, Hot Off The Chopping Block?
I’m doing something a bit different with this one: the digital version of the album is being released through a publishing company called District 6 and is due out in May, while the vinyl is being pressed and distributed by a company called Digger’s Factory and is scheduled to ship in June. They’re both new ventures for me, so I’ll be curious to see how it goes, but, probably, not curious enough to really worry about it; there’s too many new songs to make!
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L.I.S.T.E.N. is out now on Unique Records – buy it here. Hot Off The Chopping Block is out this month, and you can pre-order the album on vinyl here. Follow Andy Cooper on Instagram.
Matt Horowitz has been a hip-hop fan ever since he first heard Wu-Tang Clan’s Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) back in the mid-90’s, which positively or negatively changed his life ever since, depending on who you ask. He single-handedly runs online music publication The Witzard, and has been fortunate enough to interview Eothen ‘Egon’ Alapatt, Guilty Simpson, Ice-T and Mr. X, Dan Ubick, Career Crooks’ Zilla Rocca & Small Professor, Cut Chemist, and J-Zone, amongst countless others. He enjoys writing about and listening to hip-hop, Punk/Hardcore, and Indie Rock on vinyl with his lovely wife, while drinking craft beer, red wine, or iced coffee. To paraphrase both Darko The Super and the Beastie Boys: “Already Dead fans, they want more of this… I’m a Witzard like my man Matt Horowitz!”. Follow Matt here.