We recently caught up with Shawn Setaro, host of The Cipher podcast, to talk about some of the highlights from 150 episodes, how he chooses his guests, and much more.
For those that haven’t listened before, tell us about The Cipher podcast. How long have you been broadcasting?
The Cipher has been around since 2012. For the first 75 episodes we were called Outside the Lines With Rap Genius and had a slightly different format, but the core of the show has remained the same from the beginning.
What’s the process for choosing who appears on the show? Do you tend to have a wish list and approach them, or do guests sometimes ask to be invited on?
There are as many different ways to end up on the show as there are guests. Sometimes I’ll get approached by a publicist, or by an artist directly. I’ll reach out to a potential guest in person or via Twitter. At times, I’ll contact a publicist who I know is working with someone I’d like to have on the show. I’ll sometimes get suggestions from fans of the show of people they’d like to see. The best situation is when someone appears on the show, loves it, and recommends someone they know who they think should be a guest.
What we like about The Cipher is how the lesser-known guests often turn out to be the most interesting, like the recent episode with Anton Pukshansky. Who has surprised you the most?
Thank you! I loved how the Anton episode turned out as well. As far as surprise, I have to say that Thembisa Mshaka and Lisa Cortés were guests who turned out to have absolutely fascinating lives and careers in ways that I couldn’t possibly have anticipated.
Similarly, there have also been big names that we didn’t expect would have much to say. Do you think an artist like Paul Wall sees the show as a chance to be themselves, and perhaps change some misconceptions about them?
I hope that’s how people view the show! I think that even people who might not see those opportunities before they sit down with us usually realize within the first few minutes that this is a different kind of interview, and take the opportunity to share things they wouldn’t elsewhere.
Who has been the most insightful interviewee, and your personal favorite?
This is a tough one! There have been so many interviews where I learned a ton, and had a great time. As far as personal favorites, I always go back to our very first episode with Jean Grae. To see the way she responded to being asked questions about her music was eye-opening, and let me know that maybe we had something special. Also, our new episode with Fat Joe and Remy Ma is absolutely incredible. To see Fat Joe bouncing around the room talking about BDP, just as excited as he was when he was 17 and first heard The Bridge Is Over, is something I’ll never forget. And nothing will beat hearing Scarface singing Pink Floyd and Kiss tunes.
As far as interviews that were insightful, I always learn a ton from Saul Williams, and our recent episode with Phonte taught me a lot about the craft of rhyming. And I feel like I have a graduate degree in history after talking to Abiodun Oyewole of The Last Poets.
Have there been occasions where you imaged a guest would be really interesting, but they refused to open up?
This happens, but not very frequently. And even when I listen back to the rare interview that felt like it went poorly, it’s usually better than I remember.
Podcasts like The Cipher seem to be created as a hobby, by people who want to share their passion rather than just make money off of it. Would you say that’s accurate?
I can’t speak to what anyone else is doing. I think that most people who put the time and effort into making a good podcast would like to be remunerated in some way, whether they view it as a full-time occupation or not.
There are running costs of course. Is The Cipher self-funded, or is there some backing?
The Cipher is completely independent. I love the fact that I can ask what I want to ask, and not feel like I have to tailor my message to any other outlet’s brand or audience.
Do you manage to get much in the way of listener funding via Patreon?
We get some support, and I am absolutely blown away that people do contribute. I would obviously like more people to sign up, of course!
Does podcasting require much equipment, or is the set up pretty rudimentary?
It depends on your goals. You can make a podcast that sounds good with very minimal equipment. You can also spend a ton of money or record in a professional studio. We have good equipment and the show’s producer Josh Kross is a master at using it.
You are competing for listeners with other podcasts like Combat Jack and Pete Rosenberg [Juan Epstein, with Cipher Sounds], both of whom have been on The Cipher. Are there enough listeners to go round?
I hope so! In all seriousness, I really enjoy The Combat Jack Show and Juan Epstein. All of these shows are very different, despite some obvious surface similarities. I think audiences recognize that, and view us as complementary rather than competitive.
A few artists dabble in their own podcasts, like Ice T, Open Mike Eagle, and occasionally J-Zone and Homeboy Sandman. Do you listen to other hip-hop podcasts, and who do you think does them well?
I listen to some other hip-hop podcasts, though I can’t keep up with all of them! I really like shows by two of our former guests – DJ EFN’s Drink Champs show, which he co-hosts with Noreaga; and A Waste of Time, hosted by It’s The Real. I haven’t checked out Open Mike Eagle’s show yet, though I hear amazing things. I haven’t had time to really dig into Ice T’s show yet, or J-Zone’s. But I’ve read J-Zone’s interviews, which are awesome. I’m sure his show will be as well.
Catch the latest episode of The Cipher here, plus their extensive archive of previous shows. Shawn Setaro photo courtesy of Bill Wadman.